djranier
Rear Admiral (RDML)
Posts:1447
 | | 17 Jun 2009 09:26 PM |
| Don Cole has just posted this rule change proposal, and is asking for co-signers. I signed. I think he only needs 1 more to get it on the ballet for voting at Nats. Guys I need some co-signers on this, this will help get some new ships on the water. This rule proposal is to allow sidemounted cannons on Pre-Dreadnoughts. Proposer - Don Cole Co-signers. Rick King, Frank Falango, David Ranier Rule proposal - Old 7. Classes 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 may have sidemounted cannons (any cannon which is angled more than 15 degrees from the longitudinal centerline of the model). Warships in these classes are allowed sidemounts as follows: d) Rotating turrets (turrets that traverse from one quadrant to another) are allowed on classes 4-8 provided that they do not violate the above restrictions. Rule Proposal - New 7. Class 3 Pre-Dreadnought battleships with a beam equal to, or greater than 73 feet, and Classes 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 may have sidemounted cannons (any cannon which is angled more than 15 degrees from the longitudinal centerline of the model). Warships in these classes are allowed sidemounts as follows: d) Rotating turrets (turrets that traverse from one quadrant to another) are allowed on classes 3-8 provided that they do not violate the above restrictions.
Reasoning - Some of the pre-dreds have wider beams than class 4 Dreadnoughts, and most are within 1/2 in width, so we do not see how these could cause anymore problems than some of the class 4 Dreadnoughts. The 73 ft beam was selected, so that the ships with sidemounts, match the Pre-Dreds allowed to use 3 guns, and 1/2 unit pumps.
One of the arguements that I have heard is that they are narrow and tip to much. But as stated above some of them are actually wider that class 4 boats. | | | Its better to give than to receive.
Southeast Attack Squadron | |
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Anachronus
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2183
| | 18 Jun 2009 05:01 PM |
| Would the proposed sidemounts have to be in turrets? Most allowed predreadnoughts have wing turret mounted intermediate guns except for the Deutschlands.
| | | I am prepared to meet my maker, whether He is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
-Sir Winston- | |
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crzyhawk
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2130
| | 18 Jun 2009 05:21 PM |
| Typically the fast gun clubs require guns to be positioned in the main battery turrets. Even though the "intermediate" caliber guns were considered part of the ship's main battery, I'd imagine the letter of the law is that the guns must be mounted in the largest caliber gun turrets. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the MWC doesn't even allow you to arm the casement guns on the Scharnhorst class ACRs even though they are the same caliber gun as the turrets. That's just hearsay though, I don't know for sure. | | | HMS Invincible
USS Salem (CA-139)
USS Belleau Wood (CVL-24)
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Anachronus
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2183
| | 18 Jun 2009 05:48 PM |
| Arming the wing turrets would allow the Regina Elena class to mount 3 guns. Its main armament 12" guns was 2 single mounts with 12! 8" guns in wing turrets. | | | I am prepared to meet my maker, whether He is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
-Sir Winston- | |
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djranier
Rear Admiral (RDML)
Posts:1447
| | 18 Jun 2009 10:32 PM |
| We could only arm the 2 main turrets, fore and aft. | | | Its better to give than to receive.
Southeast Attack Squadron | |
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CaptainCook
Ensign
Posts:110
| | 23 Jun 2009 01:53 PM |
| I am not yet a member of MWC but I would like like to see this proposal passed. It would hopefully get more of these battleships on the water and rise their popularity. At a time when there are numerous North Carolinas, Nagatos, Houstons, Lutzows, and VDTs, it would be nice if we could get some more unusual ships built. If this proposal is passed, I would be interested in building a predread in the future. | | | |
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froggyfrenchman
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2988
| | 19 Oct 2009 08:27 AM |
| Can someone post the rules results on here?
Mikey | | | |
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SnipeHunter
Commander
Posts:701
| | 19 Oct 2009 08:46 AM |
| You're a few weeks early for that, dont expect anything till probably a week or so into November. | | | |
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froggyfrenchman
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2988
| | 19 Oct 2009 08:58 AM |
| Ok
Thanks for the reply.
Mikey | | | |
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Tugboat
Veteran
Admiral
Posts:4438
| | 19 Oct 2009 11:38 AM |
| Actually, the MWC rules specify that cannons must be mounted in the turrets or casemates that house the main guns... so if a given ship (like the Omaha CL, for example) that has its main gun mounted in casemates, that's a legal hardpoint. | | | |
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RichelieuBB
Veteran
Rear Admiral (RDML)
Posts:1344
| | 19 Oct 2009 12:26 PM |
| I don't think any of the pre-dreds had main gun armament in casements or wing turrets. It was the Dreadnaughts that started fitting one caliber guns to all turrets ... wasn't that the main dividing line between Pre-Dreadnaughts and Dreadnaughts?  | | Mike Mangus
Beware the French Revolution!
Operational:
HMS Erin DN
FN Richelieu BB
FN Verite PDN
Under Construction:
FN Mogador DE
FN Gascogne BB (Treaty)
FN Bretagne (1/96) (delayed)
Le Requin Xebec (AoS)
Mothballed:
FN Bearn CV
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Anachronus
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2183
| | 19 Oct 2009 05:39 PM |
| No time legal ones anyway. Some of the French battleships of the 1890's did. | | | I am prepared to meet my maker, whether He is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
-Sir Winston- | |
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froggyfrenchman
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2988
| | 20 Oct 2009 08:19 AM |
| I saw the term semi-dreadnaught the other day while reading a book. Does anyone know what that refers to?
Mikey | | | |
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Ragresen
Lieutenant
Posts:333
| | 20 Oct 2009 08:42 AM |
| Did a fast web search and here is an intresting find.
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/nelson.htm
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/semi_dreds.html
From the quick Scan they were a design of around the same time Dreadnaught was being built. Sort of a Compromise to put as many big guns on board as possible. | | Member MWC #285
Southeast Attack Squadron
SMS Kron Prinz Wilhelm (Battle Ready)
USS Des Moines (shipyards)
DKM Prinz Eugen (Keel Laid) | |
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Bob
Commander
Posts:601
| | 20 Oct 2009 01:29 PM |
| They really need to think more about their web site name. City of Art, not too bad. City o Fart, not that good. | | | |
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warspiteIRC
Veteran
Lieutenant
Posts:450
| | 20 Oct 2009 03:27 PM |
| "I saw the term semi-dreadnaught the other day while reading a book. Does anyone know what that refers to?
Mikey"
maybe they are only semi-afraid of it. | | | |
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Tugboat
Veteran
Admiral
Posts:4438
| | 20 Oct 2009 07:35 PM |
| Maybe it's a city of semi-farts... | | | |
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Kotori87
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2279
| | 20 Oct 2009 09:13 PM |
| The term "semi-dreadnought" refers to a ship that didn't quite incorporate all the improvements that HMS dreadnought did. A fine example would be IJN Satsuma. Originally planned as the first Japanese dreadnought, its design was modified when 12" gun production fell behind schedule, and a number of its planned single 12" gun turrets were replaced with twin 10" gun turrets. | | | There are 101 different types of people: those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who just can't count... | |
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Anachronus
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2183
| | 21 Oct 2009 12:11 AM |
| What is the break point with the smaller guns? Over 8" or would you say it is a mixed caliber ship conceived of after HMS Dreadnought? What brings this to mind is why is the Russian Imp. Pavel a semidreadnought with 12" and 8" guns when the USS Connecticut with 12" and 8" guns isn't considered one? This is very much OT I should think but an interesting thought problem. | | | I am prepared to meet my maker, whether He is prepared for the ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
-Sir Winston- | |
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Kotori87
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Posts:2279
| | 21 Oct 2009 01:24 PM |
| I would say it's more of a date or an intent thing than a gun-size thing. All the ships I've seen labeled "semi-dreadnought" were built after Dreadnought was, and many of them represented an alternate evolutionary branch than dreadnought herself. | | | There are 101 different types of people: those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who just can't count... | |
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