RCENGR Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:241

 | | 31 Jul 2010 12:38 AM | | True, I already have some minor tweeks I'm planning. | | | Mark
USS Roanoke,
HMS Queen | |
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Evil Joker Veteran
 Commander
 Posts:615

 | | 31 Jul 2010 01:02 AM | | lol and after your next battle you will have more minor tweeks and so on. i love this hobby you have to think not just do/play you do very nice work good shooting/luck | | Southern California Region Attack Patrol (SCRAP) http://www.scrapcombatships.com
SMS Konig - Battle Ready
SMS Von der Tann - Battle Ready
DMB Scipione Africano - Battle Ready
DKM Prinz Eugen - Battle Ready | |
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Tugboat Veteran
 Admiral
 Posts:4438

 | | 31 Jul 2010 11:20 AM | | Looks beautiful! Glad to hear that the issues were worked out and that you're good to go  | | | |
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RCENGR Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:241

 | | 01 Aug 2010 09:00 PM | | The Roanoke completed 14 sorties this weekend at the Treaty conference event, with no sinks! Overall things when well, I gave as good as I got for the most part. I had one sortie with intermittent radio drop out - it's very frustrating when you cannot move away when someone is shooting you full of holes. I took myself out of the last sortie of the weekend by bumping my rudder and stripping the servo gears when I took the boat out of the water. Other than those minor problems, the whole match went well. 

I need to change a couple of things of course. I need to get a lighter superstructure. At 10 ounces, it's a little too much on top. Plus I learned that the most robust pieces still get shot off. My top director is still visible in the picture above, but only because it drifted to the side of the pond and I was able to retrieve it and glue it back on. I also had guns shot off, radar dishes shot off, and I lost a lot of armor shield around the secondary guns. On a positive note, the turrets took several hits but were undamaged. I also learned that you need the internal bb shield even between the first two ribs. I left it out because there was no easy way to put it in, which resulted in several blow throughs. Ouch. Fortunately I was fast enough and kept enough distance that the hits on or below the water line were limited and the pump could keep up with all the damage. Overall, a very satisfying first battle! | | | Mark
USS Roanoke,
HMS Queen | |
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RCENGR Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:241

 | | 01 Aug 2010 09:05 PM | | I forgot to mention, I was very happy with how the super magnets worked out as hatch holders. I was able to rapidly open and close the hatches when I needed to change batteries or CO2, or work on the radio. After watching some of the other captains mess with unscrewing nuts, trying to line up holes on studs, and just trying to find their attachment hardware, I decided that the magnets were the way to go. | | | Mark
USS Roanoke,
HMS Queen | |
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RichelieuBB Veteran
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1345

 | | 01 Aug 2010 10:49 PM | | Admittedly, the magnets do a good job holding the hatches in place. What they will not do though is give a good deck seal. The first time someone prop washes and sinks the ship because water leaked in through the deck, you may rethink the magnet idea.  | | Mike Mangus
Beware the French Revolution! Operational:
HMS Erin DN
FN Richelieu BB
FN Verite PDN
Under Construction:
FN Mogador DE
FN Gascogne BB (Treaty)
FN Bretagne (1/96) (delayed)
Le Requin Xebec (AoS)
Mothballed:
FN Bearn CV
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RCENGR Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:241

 | | 02 Aug 2010 06:37 PM | | I guess that's why Treaty rules don't allow prop washing. Even so, I'm not sure that possibility will change my mind. The guys using thumb screws were not getting any better seals then I was. The one time I was prop washed, by accident I'm sure , it was a non-event. Most of the water that made it up on the deck just flowed back off. While not water tight, my hatches are closely fit and rest on a lip that goes around the entire hatch, so the pump should be able to keep up with any water that leaks through. | | | Mark
USS Roanoke,
HMS Queen | |
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Hovey Moore Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:154

 | | 02 Aug 2010 07:07 PM | | I think the effect of screws is that they tighten down a deck help to compensate for a bad deck to subdeck joint. But IF (emphasis on the if) both pieces lay flat next to one another then magnets work just as well as anything else. A tight joint is still a tight joint whether you bolt, screw, staple, glue, or just assemble it. | | | |
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Kotori87
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2279

 | | 04 Aug 2010 03:01 AM | | Posted By RCENGR on 02 Aug 2010 06:37 PM
I guess that's why Treaty rules don't allow prop washing. Even so, I'm not sure that possibility will change my mind. The guys using thumb screws were not getting any better seals then I was. The one time I was prop washed, by accident I'm sure , it was a non-event. Most of the water that made it up on the deck just flowed back off. While not water tight, my hatches are closely fit and rest on a lip that goes around the entire hatch, so the pump should be able to keep up with any water that leaks through. I agree, fiddling with screws and wingnuts, etc. is for the birds. For the past year and a half, I've been battling my VU using simple gravity hold-downs, and only this month upgraded to flip-levers to hold my deck in place. In previous ships I have used carefully-designed tongues and other clever hold-down methods to allow access to their insides in mere seconds, while maintaining a decent deck seal. I have also seen people who put one #4-40 allen screw every inch on their ships. It takes them a half-hour just to open it up if they forgot to turn on the CO2, and another half-hour to close it back up again afterwards. The difference in sealing? Unnoticeable. | | | There are 101 different types of people: those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who just can't count... | |
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RichelieuBB Veteran
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1345

 | | 04 Aug 2010 09:10 AM | | I have to disagree. Although Treaty may not allow prop washing, it is a valid tactic in IRCWCC and MWC. Even a small gap can allow a significant amount of water into the ship, especially if the water is practically forced in by twin 2" or larger props from the larger ships. Ever see the propwash generated by a Yamato?
Time after time I've seen a ship pump suddenly go full stream after getting prop washed with a poor deck seal. I've seen ships sink numurous times because they suddenly got a boatload of water dumped on the deck and through a poor deck seal by an NC. I've also seen a ship shink because it's stern got pushed around and swamped by water pouring over the outside edge of the hull and through a bad deck seal. Ever see a ship get accidently rammed which knocks the deck loose and opens a gap?
It may be convient to use simpler or no method to hold down a deck. But for that "it ain't gonna happen" deck seal, a more positive method is needed.
It doesn't have to be a screw every inch on the deck rim. My last two ships use six brass knurled knobs on each ship's main hatche. It only takes about 30 seconds to put them on or remove them. For the extra 25 seconds of work vs magnets or levers, I get a tight deck seal that does not allow ANY water inside the ship. As example, the Verite was stuck along shore with two ships, one a SoDak, trying to propwash the little ship under. It didn't happen even though the deck was flooded with water. The Verite survived her 5 minutes.
I guess it is a matter of convience for some people. I'll take the extra 25 seconds to open and close the ship to prevent any water entering the boat from anything other than the holes put into it by BBs. | | Mike Mangus
Beware the French Revolution! Operational:
HMS Erin DN
FN Richelieu BB
FN Verite PDN
Under Construction:
FN Mogador DE
FN Gascogne BB (Treaty)
FN Bretagne (1/96) (delayed)
Le Requin Xebec (AoS)
Mothballed:
FN Bearn CV
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Greg McFadden
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1416

 | | 04 Aug 2010 10:23 AM | | Magnets can and will seal a deck well, if the joint is well designed (until the wood warps too much to be flat anymore, but that is another problem). My on K, when the deck was new, you could hold the stern underwater up to the turrets and get almost no leaking around the joint. Even after the deck started to warp a bit, the magnets held well enough. (one of many reasons I am going to plastic deck materials rather than wood) | | | |
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Hovey Moore Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:154

 | | 04 Aug 2010 12:46 PM | | Actually Mike I think we are mostly in agreement. I consider a bad deck seal a major problem and a one that a builder needs to take in to consideration. I have used screws, toggles, threaded rod, silicone, and even just gravity to hold down and seal a deck opening. All of them have their advantages and disadvantages. Out here in Washington it is the expected norm to clean off the decks of your opponents while on five with your propwash. We don't have a lot of ships so the pond would feel very empty if all the on fivers hid at the far corners of the pond. But even then I would still consider a good deck seal important since I like to battle dreadnoughts and none of them have the free board to stay afloat for long without a good deck seal.
To me a deck needs to resist the intrusion of water AND be reasonably quick to grant access to the inside when needed. Anything less is a major build deficiency.
Now if your deck sits tight to the subdeck then you don't need much force to seal it down. Where as if your deck resembles a potato chip then yes you need something a LOT stronger than magnets are likely to provide. Hopefully your decks are much closer to flat than a chip and that's why you don't need a bazillion screws. Magnets can work but only if the deck seats tightly on its own. Warped decks will necessitate other options.
On my upcoming Bayern build I may well use magnets to hold the decks down. But I am going to be using plastic decks that are recessed into a plastic subdeck. That should prevent warping and make for a good seal no matter what system I use.
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