Issues For Independents
Last Post 17 Dec 2009 07:31 AM by RichelieuBB. 30 Replies.
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warspiteIRCUser is Online
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04 Apr 2009 08:45 PM

"From an aesthetics point of view when i think of a scale model"

 

Try looking at some the Canadian ships in Fast Gun, I don't think any club has any prettier ships than them in NS (NABS) 

Bob Pottle, Kurt, etc really make them look good.

 

 

 

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06 Apr 2009 11:53 AM
I agree. The Canadian guys make top notch looking models.
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31 May 2009 07:36 PM
For those not liking a rules set that is local you an always approach a club and see if they
would allow you to float a boat with a different rule set, like our club is mainly IRCWCC
but there are some ships built to treaty and MWC rules in the club, we may ask them to
plug guns (like carriers with suddenly huge numbers of guns) or if all at pond are ok with
it they can fight with the rest of us, it really is up to the people at your local club, it is them
you will be fighting with most, so it is the people you need to have a good match with if
you are to stay with the hobby, a specific rule set is nice find one you like and use it, it
would help if someone near by also used it so you could compare notes and building tips
and have battling buddies but it is not a necessity. Go to have fun.
Bryan, ~~ Member of the OAF, ~~ Ontario Attack Force ~~ Happy dad to battling sons. ~~ ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/ ~~ Fleet: DKM Bismarck SMS Hindenburg SMS Scharnhorst DKM Adm Scheer DKM Nordmark ~~ Molding: USN Tennessee USN Gearing IJN Mogami IJN Akizuki and decks turrets etc. ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/photos/album/18#
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15 Dec 2009 11:52 PM

So talking to the two nearest caaptains, it seems that they've both chosen fast-gun over big-gun. I was introduced to the hobby by the WWCC a big gun group, so that's the direction I lean. I'm curious why Independent Captians choose their formats. I said in the a different  thread, I think the bigger round is exciting, and it seems more fun to build a battleship that can fire the larger round (plus better water penetration), but after drooling over captiancooks pictures of the Utah, which I'd given up on (both because I don't have his amazing woodworking skills, and because it didn't mount 14+ in guns in the original) I'm starting to reconsider.  As I understand it:

Big Gun has larger guns, and only mounts those in the main turrets, for the ships over 50,000 tons. (I had to check, and I guess cruisers can mount the smaller turrets, although how in the heck you get them powered I don't know.

Fast Gun has all .177 bb guns, and can mount all guns on all ships.

The other large difference between the two is how they scale the speed.

For everything else, either the two formats are the same, or even different clubs in the same format have different rules.

Am I correct?

So it seems to me, that as an Independent, going Fast-Gun will give me more flexiblity in ships (both age and country/diversity) while still staying competitive.

Those big guns are sexy though.

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16 Dec 2009 12:22 AM
Posted By James on 15 Dec 2009 11:52 PM

So talking to the two nearest caaptains, it seems that they've both chosen fast-gun over big-gun. I was introduced to the hobby by the WWC a big gun group, so that's the direction I lean. I'm curious why Independent Captians choose their formats. I said in the a different  thread, I think the bigger round is exciting, and it seems more fun to build a battleship that can fire the larger round (plus better water penetration), but after drooling over captiancooks pictures of the Utah, which I'd given up on (both because I don't have his amazing woodworking skills, and because it didn't mount 14+ in guns in the original) I'm starting to reconsider.  As I understand it:

Big Gun has larger guns, and only mounts those in the main turrets, for the ships over 50,000 tons. (I had to check, and I guess cruisers can mount the smaller turrets, although how in the heck you get them powered I don't know.

Fast Gun has all .177 bb guns, and can mount all guns on all ships.

The other large difference between the two is how they scale the speed.

For everything else, either the two formats are the same, or even different clubs in the same format have different rules.

Am I correct?

So it seems to me, that as an Independent, going Fast-Gun will give me more flexiblity in ships (both age and country/diversity) while still staying competitive.

Those big guns are sexy though.


Fast gun is easier because it is cheeper to buy BBs than 1/4" ball bearings and the ships do not need timers for their guns etc.

Fast gun is divided into 2 major groups:

IRCWCC which was the original, a fast easy way to group and categorize ships, good solid rules, tested and revised over many years, and quite workable.  the boats tend to be cheeper to build and maintain and easyer to set up, the speeds are not as accurate.

MWC started with a base similar to IRCWCC but changed some of the categories and numbers of guns for their ships also has a closer approximation of scale speeds or at least a greater range to better define ship classes.

A later comer and one that could be part of the above groups is

Treaty Combat, it is a bit more detailed but again basically a off shoot of IRCWCC.

  All 3 of these use the smaller BB guns which makes it easier to get permission to use ponds, allows younger captains (some areas consider the guns above a small caliber to be actual fire arms, check local areas), and is generally softer for anyone getting hit by a stray round.  All clubs have good building and design rules and good safety rules, really it depends on who you can battle with and want to make the effort to contact and play with.  I know it is easier to get permission to use a pond for fast gun (Small Guns) than any of the big gun combats in our area.  Our club has most members part of the IRCWCC but some friends drop in and battle ships that are constructed to MWCC or Treaty stats, what happens is we look at each ship and make the call before a battle if everyone is ok with it fighting and if any changes have to be made, then we go play, really you just have to work together and make it fair and enjoyable for all and it is good then!

 

Bryan

 

Model Warship Combat, International Remote Control Warship Combat Club, Treaty Warship Combat Club

Bryan, ~~ Member of the OAF, ~~ Ontario Attack Force ~~ Happy dad to battling sons. ~~ ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/ ~~ Fleet: DKM Bismarck SMS Hindenburg SMS Scharnhorst DKM Adm Scheer DKM Nordmark ~~ Molding: USN Tennessee USN Gearing IJN Mogami IJN Akizuki and decks turrets etc. ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/photos/album/18#
Kotori87User is Offline
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16 Dec 2009 03:16 AM
I find it interesting that you say Fast Gun is safer, when the people I've talked to who have tried both Fast Gun and Big Gun say "Fast Gun hurts more". Maybe it's because Fast Gun use pressure restrictions while Big Guns use penetration restrictions, and maybe it isn't. Either way, "one is safer than the other" is not a valid argument, since both require the same level of protection for skippers, bystanders, and automobile windshields.

In fact, I would go one step further and ask, what are we, who have only participated in one format, even doing comparing them? It's like comparing different flavors of pizza without having tried them all. How could I, who grew up on deep-dish pepperoni and sausage, decide whether olive tastes better than hawaiian? Sure, I could look at the nutritional information, but that's not an indicator of taste. Better to let those who have tried both to decide.

So let's ease up on the Big Gun bashing (most of which is incorrect or irrelevant anyway) and let the people for whom this thread is targeted answer the question. If you're an independent, which format did you choose and why? If you started a club, why did you choose the format you did?
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16 Dec 2009 08:22 AM

I will agree with some of what u say, but I still think getting hit by a 1/4" ball bearing would hurt more than a BB, but thats my opinion

 Having seen captains in both Fast gun and Big gun get hit by their own guns during recovery, I can say with some certanty that fast gun hurts less and causes less damage.

I have tried Big gun and found the lag between shots to be killer, may missed opportunities, and one shot from a bigger ship just crippling on a smaller one and smaller ships REALLY having a hard time (ie if your not in a big boat its not as much fun at all) sinking a larger ship.

 

I have personal experience with smaller ships sinking my class 7 ship in fast gun so I know those Captans were happy!

 

But I want to make it clear I am NOT bashing any of the styles and i would be happy if a independant chose any club/style to play in and wish them well and still try to help them no matter what club they belong to as we are all really one hobby and need to work together.

 

I like watching big gun, but do not like participating in Big gun, I like the knife fight in a telephone booth feel you get from fast gun but that is my choise, others are free to chose their own way and I would support them no mater what way they chose to go.  I just do like to help people and we generally all do have the same result we are aiming for.   FUN!

 

Merry Christmas to all and sorry for the rant on your thread, i will stop now....

 

Bryan

Bryan, ~~ Member of the OAF, ~~ Ontario Attack Force ~~ Happy dad to battling sons. ~~ ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/ ~~ Fleet: DKM Bismarck SMS Hindenburg SMS Scharnhorst DKM Adm Scheer DKM Nordmark ~~ Molding: USN Tennessee USN Gearing IJN Mogami IJN Akizuki and decks turrets etc. ~~ http://ontarioattackforce.multiply.com/photos/album/18#
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16 Dec 2009 10:51 AM

Two of the comments that came up (from fastgun) are making me like big-gun better:

1. Biggun sinks little ships easier. I like the scaleness of BigGun, IRL a cruiser, even a heavy would have been suicidal to go up against an Iowa or KGV. I like that that is still true, that cruisers would need to gang up (and probably get lucky) to sink a battleship.

2. Knife fight in a telephone booth. - I like that the few biggun battles I've been to (I've not attended a fastgun, although I hope to change that this year) involve more manuvering and planned shots.  More aiming and thinking is involved I guess.

James

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16 Dec 2009 05:35 PM
James one correction to an earlier post of yours.
Fast gun only allows a certain number of the main cannons to fire as well what quadrant they can fire in.
Big gun is the rule set which allows the use of all cannon systems.
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16 Dec 2009 06:32 PM

Huh, I missed that when I read the rules. So, does that mean no rotating turrets?

 

RichelieuBBUser is Offline
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17 Dec 2009 07:31 AM
Most fast gun allows rotating turrets in class 4 or above as long as the turrets do not violate the # of cannons allowed in a certain firing arc. For instance, on a class four ship, you could have dual sterns and a sidemount cannon. The sidemount cannon could rotate between left side or right side and not violate the 1 cannon per side rule.
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