R/C Naval Combat

If cost is no object (i.e. enough sponsorship funds can be found to underwrite anything you want) what would/could you put into a ship? What would it do that they don't do now?

JM

Automated systems (cannon focusing, pump reset), turning motors, video targeting and rangefinding. (I'm stretching 'cost' to include cost of time, as $ is not so much of the issue)

I know some guys are running a ship with a video camera attached. This is way too cool.. I would be interested in finding something small to attach to one of my ships to film battle action as its happening. I know of no other way than to show the video of what we do to others to create more interest in this hobby.

Is anyone operating a ship with a micro video camera?

Mark

In my opinion, the ultimate ship is a fully autonomous ship, which can detect, identify, and engage a multitude of ships of different classes, make tactical and strategic decisions, and return to an automated "refuelling" base to reload gas, batteries, and ammo. I'm especially excited now that I've heard about one company producing rangefinding cameras (for each pixel, it records color, brightness, and distance from camera). Right now I'm picturing something like a Montana, for its size and firepower, with 3-4 cameras and other sensors built into the superstructure.

On the subject of running a ship with onboard video camera, benbox, gascan, Madwand, and I are experimenting with that. Right now we have a wireless camera installed on HMS Hood, "B" turret. Gascan has built a face-mount display to allow the skipper to see what his ship sees, and we hope to begin testing soon. We've run experiments in the past, but radio interference made getting good footage difficult:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpNEeYe1asY

Funny however, most of the cost of these designs aren't in the parts. I could afford that. The cost is in the engineering, whether it be your time or your money paying for some one to build you a solution.

I've used a small 9volt powered 1.2 ghz colour video camera on my father's tanker, just for an experiment. It was interesting to sail the ship without looking at it, and I did manage to bring it to the dock very nicely, without runnig over anything....plus I've mounted it on top of "b" turret on Rodney, to see if it aids or hinders accuracy......results still pending.
It is a wicked camera angle, and you do feel like you are on the bridge of the ship.

I'm not sure if a gun mount would help or not.

On one hand, you can aim which is great..

On the other, you can't judge distance..

And you can't tell where you are going, unless you look up. Which causes a slight delay in your reaction.

Slightly off-topic but related to an ultimate ship design would be camera-driven targeting. Hypothetically, all vessels could be required to carry ensigns of a standard size, semi-rigidly positioned on a mast. A camera located in the fire director(s) of a ship feeding into a computer equipped with object recognition software would then be used to ascertain the range and relative heading of the target, coordinating the turrets to target the vessel with an appropriate amount of depression and, if necessary, to lead the target as appropriate to ensure hits. On a larger-scale ship with multiple armed calibers of weapons, perhaps it could be implemented in conjunction with two-person "crews" (one in charge of navigation, one in charge of weapons systems).

Hey Kotori,

I have dreamed of that type of battling. I have brought it up several times. I have dreamed of a little pod in the back of the van with several screens, a captain, a gunner... wow

Do you have any more info posted on your director. I am intersted in finding out more about it. I had thought of some type of embedded pc in the ship but I am not an engineer so most of my ideas stay ideas...

What is a benbox, gascan, or Madwand?

Thanks

Johnny

I think they are all types of johnsonrods....

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Originally posted by jadfer

Hey Kotori,

I have dreamed of that type of battling. I have brought it up several times. I have dreamed of a little pod in the back of the van with several screens, a captain, a gunner... wow

Do you have any more info posted on your director. I am intersted in finding out more about it. I had thought of some type of embedded pc in the ship but I am not an engineer so most of my ideas stay ideas...

What is a benbox, gascan, or Madwand?

Thanks

Johnny

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I wish I had more real information on the idea myself. As many ideas as I have, there just aren't enough hours in a day to work on such an idea, yet. As it is, if the design were to be based off the processing power of a P3 or first-generation Athlon CPU, it'd either be a 400-line resolution camera in the fire director with a 2x or 3x lens over the CCD. If there isn't enough space to locate the camera in the director itself, I'd use a periscope setup with the camera lower in the superstructure or the top of the hull. By using off-the-shelf algorithms such as in Labview (a program made my National Instruments), its' possible to configure the system to determine approximate range (registering the pattern on the flag and its relative scale), approximate heading (registering the distortion of the flag within the frame of video), and speed (computing the change between frames). Given the power demand of the system based upon the hardware I envision using, I doubt it'd be practical to use it in anything smaller than 1/96 scale.

If anybody else is pursuing a similar concept, I'd certainly like to hear more about it

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Originally posted by Kotori87

.... I'm especially excited now that I've heard about one company producing rangefinding cameras (for each pixel, it records color, brightness, and distance from camera). Right now I'm picturing something like a Montana....

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Have you got any more info on this camera? Manufacturer? Website? Theory of operation?

I was thinking of laser range finders in place of targeting radar, but this sounds even better.

I saw something the other day that was interesting. Basically, it involved an automated tracking system that tracked a laser pointer dot. If the captain had a laser pointer mounted on a pair of safety glasses, all he would have to do is keep looking at the target and the ship would automatically home in and track on the laser pointer dot.

I read about that rangefinding video camera almost a year ago, and I've lost the link. I don't know how it worked, all I know is that it does work. They had a demonstration video posted on their website. It was impressive. It also looked expensive :(

Hey Webwookie, have you considered using a wireless transmitter to offload the computational part of your idea to a shore-based computer? since you say you can't fit a powerful enough computer into a 1:144 battleship, put the computer on shore and put a (much smaller, lighter, lower-power, etc) wireless transmitter on the ship instead. That's a trick I learned about with underwater ROV's, where they limit the risk of water damage by putting only the sensors and data transmission equipment onboard the ROV, and send the data up to the surface (where they've got really expensive computers) to do any processing necessary.

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Originally posted by Droidling

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Originally posted by Kotori87

.... I'm especially excited now that I've heard about one company producing rangefinding cameras (for each pixel, it records color, brightness, and distance from camera). Right now I'm picturing something like a Montana....

---

Have you got any more info on this camera? Manufacturer? Website? Theory of operation?

I was thinking of laser range finders in place of targeting radar, but this sounds even better.

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Google: "photonic mixer device"

JM

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Originally posted by JohnmCA72

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Originally posted by Droidling

quote:

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Originally posted by Kotori87

.... I'm especially excited now that I've heard about one company producing rangefinding cameras (for each pixel, it records color, brightness, and distance from camera). Right now I'm picturing something like a Montana....

---

Have you got any more info on this camera? Manufacturer? Website? Theory of operation?

I was thinking of laser range finders in place of targeting radar, but this sounds even better.

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Google: "photonic mixer device"

JM

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I've seen some papers on PMD's before. I still haven't been able to find anyone manufacturing anything like what Kotori87 mentioned. Any more specifics?

Terry

I understand that this is "no money-limit", but dont you think that this is getting crazy? If your going to be putting computers in, you might as well move up to 1/20 scale, with 1/2" shells and titanium plating, then shoot at each other on the ocean? Live television and a fight to the "death", i mean really guys.

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Originally posted by Mark41



Is anyone operating a ship with a micro video camera?

Mark

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Back in the mid 80's A gentleman named Dan Haynes Built an IOWA with a b/w video camera installed. It would pane with the "B" turret and even elevate with the guns. He had trips in the turret and would fire 2 on either broadside and 3 forward. He had a tv attached to the transmitter. Back then we weren't too concern with the quality of picture, we were just glad to see a picture. I've seen some battle footage on UTube that was worst. The system was compact for the era (on board equipment took about a 4x4x4 box of space all worked off 12v) The ship was built for ircwcc and at the time dual sides were not legal in the club. I do remember people writing into the rules outlawing auto-range finders and such during her first year of battling (at NE Regionals). He sold her and left the hobby to go into business for himself He a machinist and builds machine to mass produce things like throw away vcr tapes (remember this is the mid 80's). I was fortune enough to buy the ship were it sat for 20 years. By the time I got around to working on it, the transmitter was lost. Still have the camera haven't tried it out in years so don't know if it works.

Cameras in boats? to be honest I'm surprised that people haven't installed them in mass. But engineering is the biggest issue most have. Adding a camera is too much of a luxury (in engineering time) that most can't afford. Since money isn't the issue and time is money "one for each turret please".

Danny

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Originally posted by BoomerBoy17

I understand that this is "no money-limit", but dont you think that this is getting crazy? If your going to be putting computers in, you might as well move up to 1/20 scale, with 1/2" shells and titanium plating, then shoot at each other on the ocean? Live television and a fight to the "death", i mean really guys.

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I think there's a lot of value in having "anything goes" discussions. Many ideas will be crazy &/or impractical, but it stimulates thinking. Sometimes something falls out that is practical, or somebody figures out how to do what nobody else thought was possible. That's how a lot of advances happen. Even if nothing does come of it, it can be a fun exercise.

JM

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Originally posted by B24

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Originally posted by Mark41



Is anyone operating a ship with a micro video camera?

Mark

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...
Cameras in boats? to be honest I'm surprised that people haven't installed them in mass. But engineering is the biggest issue most have. Adding a camera is too much of a luxury (in engineering time) that most can't afford. Since money isn't the issue and time is money "one for each turret please".

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I think that you'd get to a point, pretty quickly, where a single operator gets overloaded with too many inputs & controls. Trying to keep your eyes on a video monitor is just asking to run your ship up onto shore, etc.

Assuming that it can/will help your gunnery, though, to be able to sight straight down your barrels, I'd suggest the following rule: A captain may have a direct view of the action on the pond, OR a video feed from the ship, but not both at once. In other words, if you're going to aim with the aid of shipboard video, you're going to have to do it from a spot where you can't directly see anything else. You choose: close-up tactical view or longer-range strategic view.

JM