I posted this into my Espana thread, and thought, why not make this into a "how to" for making a nice "inlaid" deck where the deck lids fit into the deck instead of just laying on top of the hull. This deck how to was done for MWC Rules. The rules basically state that you can have no more that 1/2" thick deck between any two ribs. This 1/2" includes any stringers.... Most ships, not all, but the majority of them have a stringer. For this reason I build most of my decks 3/8" think. This includes a 1/4" sub-deck, and a reinforced 1/8" deck. First thing, if your ship has a level deck, we need to make sure your hull is level. If it is not, the deck will definitely not be level. In some extreme cases it is even against the rules to alter your decks to gain an advantage in gun elevations... First thing I do is set the beam width. Because fiberglass hulls tent to bend inwards or outwards without a deck, this may cause the ship to actually bend along it's length as well. So we want to make sure this is not the case. I do this by temporarily gluing pieces of wood to hold the hull shape and proper beam width, -1/16". Go to the center on your plans, measure, then measure your hull in the same spot. If it is wider or narrower, cut a piece of wood to the needed length, and then glue it into place after you have checked the width once more. Do this every couple of inches..... continue till you have the complete hull measured out correctly. For a larger view click here! First Issue with the E2... the hull had a bad dip in it. In other words, the bow and stern where higher than the middle of the ship. The deck should be level and flat..... This was not too bad.... It would have been ok, but every time I would have looked at that ship I would know it was there... The middle was about 3/16" lower than the stern and bow. You can see here where I had stuck a stick under the gap when the ship was laying on my workbench... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! If your ship has this issue, here is how you fix that the easy way... Lay the hull upside down on a very flat surface..... Use a straight edge, square, or level to check your table if not sure... My workbench is 3" thick butcher block oak.... it's flat! Take a marker or dark pencil, lay it flat on the table next to the largest gap between the hull and the table... Use tape and wrap it around the pen about 3" from the end till it is thick enough that the tip will line up with the edge of the hull where the gap is. You want the pencil/pen to stay in the exact position as you lay it onto the table and mark a line down the length of the hull.... For a larger view click here! I got lucky this time and my marker tip lined right up with the edge of the hull where the gap was the largest... For a larger view click here! Now, just like marking a waterline, move the pencil or pen along the entire hull, both sides, till you have marked a line all the way around the ship.... If you lined up the pen correctly, you should see a line where the hull is not level, or has dips and rises in it... By marking the hull this way, you can then go back and re-sand the edge down to where your pen marked the line... this will level out the hull. For a larger view click here! Another issue that you may have is that the hull will "wobble" from side to side while you are doing this... this means not only does the hull have a bend or dip in the length, but also has a bend in the center ....... meaning the left or right side of the ship is lower than the other side... causing this wobble. To fix this, before you mark your line like I did above, take a small piece of wood or thick paper, and slide it under the bow or stern on each side. Move this stick around, maybe add a thinner or thicker piece on one side, till the wobble stops... then mark the hull as above. Here you see where I had placed a stick at a angle till I got the hull to level out... These things are not a big deal to most captains. But to me it would bug the hell out of me till I ripped out the deck and fixed it... For a larger view click here! Here you see the line that was marked as above. I will now have to cut/sand the edge down to this line all around the hull... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Both the bow and stern needed to be sanded down.... For a larger view click here! Tada, no more bend.... the deck will be level... Now of course this only pertains to ships with a level deck.... you might ruin your brand new NC if you did this... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Now I get ready to mark the 1/4" plywood I am going to use for my sub-decking. The Espana has a stringer in the casement, so this means I am allowed a 3/8" thick deck. I will use a 1/4" think sub-deck, and a 1/8" top deck. The top deck "lids" will actually sit down into the deck.... I build all my decks this way. I personally dislike the decks that just "sit" on top of the hull... it's a spudsy thing... To mark the sub-deck I need two sharp pencils, A long one, and one short... For a larger view click here! I lay the hull over onto the wood and then from the "INSIDE" of the hull, I trace the contour of the hull. Be sure to have your beam correct before doing this! Don't forget to subtract the thickness of your hull skin either... For a larger view click here! Here is the reason for the short pencil........ For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! You should end up with a inside outline of your hull. For a larger view click here! Hard to see what I am talking about here, but you will see when you do it... When you mark the hull on the plywood, the lines will have small curves and waves in it... DON'T remark these or cut them straight! Your hull might have have a different thickness along the length.... some areas may be thinner than others... this will make that line look wavy... unless you had too many beers, if that's the case, erase and remark the lines when sober.. For a larger view click here! Now I cut the sub-deck out.. For a larger view click here! Then I mark the center line and begin to lay out the areas I want to leave permanently in the deck, such as cross frames, or Barbette areas... You want to have a couple of cross frames to help keep the beam and give your top deck a stable platform... I also mark in my Barbette locations... Don't forget to subtract the thickness of the bow or stern hull before measuring and marking the Barbette. You see below that the yellow pencil is where the actual hull would be.. The front of the Barbette sits 7" from the bow.. the hull at the bow is 3/8" think. SO I subtract 3/8" from my 7" and then mark it.... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Now it is time to plan out the rest of the sub-deck.... I have marked all the Barbette locations so I know where to place cross frames or not.. I want a 3/8" thick rim around the edge (top deck), and a 3/8" sub-deck area that the deck lids will sit on.. so the "rail" around the edge of the hull will be 3/4". Here is a drawing to help understand the deck system... I start by marking the edge with a compass all the way around the deck where there will be a sub-deck rail... I will later glue the top-deck rim to this rail as well... For a larger view click here! Here you see where the rail will be... the Barbette are marked, so I need to incorporate them into the design... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Before I cut the sub-deck I have to dry fit it. The bow and other areas will need to be sanded at a angle to fit the shape of the hull inside where the hull flairs.... I always mark the edge I DON'T want to sand with a pencil or marker. That way while I am sanding I have a visual reference so I don't over sand that edge... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Here you see where I have planned out the sub-deck and cut the holes where the wood will be removed with my scroll saw. For a larger view click here! and we carefully remove the cut out areas.... For a larger view click here! Now we recheck by dry fitting, then we glue the sub-deck into place... be sure the deck sits inside and flush with the top all the way around! For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Now to make the top deck and removable deck lids... For a larger view click here! Lay the hull down on the 1/8" plywood and trace the hull contour along the outside edge... For a larger view click here! I also mark the areas we cut out in the sub-deck. I do this as a reference later on when we mark and cut the removable deck lids... it gives us a reference as to where the areas are... For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Now cut the pattern out.. be sure to leave the line and a little wood... we will sand the deck to fit later so we need a little left over the edge... For a larger view click here! It never fails, if I cut the top-deck right on the line..... when I go to sand the deck to fit, it will be too small someplace... For a larger view click here! So I always leave a little wood when cutting it, and then I tape it into place, and then sand it to shape... For a larger view click here! Here you see the overhang where I left a little wood... we will remove this later. For a larger view click here! For a larger view click here! Now for the deck lids.... First, if you don't want to mess around anymore, you can simply stop here, maybe cut the deck lid in two or three parts, and then just screw the deck into place... but ugh, why not go a little further and have a nice deck with a nice edge and lip to help keep that water out? What I do is trace the marks I made when I marked the lid.. These marks are the areas that where removed from the sub-deck. The access areas... or simply put... the holes! Then I flip the deck over, use carbon paper, and retrace those open areas on top of the deck. Be sure to flip the paper too before you mark.... Then after I have the "open areas" marked, I then go around and draw another line about 3/8" around the opening. This line is the one we will cut on.... the first lines are the sub-deck, the new lines are the edge of the deck lids... For a larger view click here! Here you see the top deck after the deck lid areas have been cut out... this is what I have been calling the "rim". This rim is glued to the sub-deck and hull.... For a larger view click here! Once done, it gives you a nice inset areas to place the deck lids.... For a larger view click here! You see where I drilled holes here to remove the deck lid area... Before I glue the "rim" to the sub-deck, I trace out new deck lids so they wont have those holes... For a larger view click here! Here you see the glued deck rim in place... For a larger view click here! I strengthen the deck lids by gluing the pieces I cut out of the sub-deck to the bottom of the deck lids. I cut off about a 1/4" around the edge of those pieces before I glue them onto the lids so it is not too tight a fit when placing the lids into the deck. For a larger view click here! This process makes the lids very strong, less chance to warp later on, and gives you something more to glue or drill into when adding things later... For a larger view click here! These deck lids and sub-deck are used in every ship I make.... For a larger view click here! I hope this helps some. It was not my best deck.... but the principles are all there....
2 things I have queries about.. 1- if i read your diagram correctly, you're essentially adding 1/8" to the top of your hull bit sitting your deck above the fiberglass? 2- re-attaching the 1/4" thick cutouts from the subdeck to the deck seems a bit like tacking in weight up high for no real neccesity? Does it really make that much of a difference or is the weight gain that marginal?
1- yes... 2, if your attaching anything to the deck ,like superstructure, it helps to have something besides 1/8" to attach too. I find that after time, 1/8" ply will warp no matter what treatment it has. If you add the wood under it, theres not much weight added at all, and it helps with the warping. Plus if you have guns attached to the barbettes in that deck..... you need as much wood as you can get to secure them...
Another neat trick is to use 3/16" ply instead of 1/4" and 1/8". That gives a solid warp resistant 3/16" deck to attach superstructure to.
Yep, any thickness will work if you have room... If the ship has no stringers, you can even use 1/4" and 1/4" as you are allowed 1/2" total. The neat trick about what I do is not the thinkness but the "inlaid" deck lids. I think they look good, and it seems that water is less likely to come in from the deck edge.
Chase is correct. The max deck+subdeck thickness is still 3/8" regardless of whether there is a stringer.
Yep you are correct. I was reading the stringer rules.. 7. A stringer shall be defined as any solid material that hull skin is attached to that forms the shape of the hull and is not classed as a rib. a) No stringers shall be used unless the shape of the hull dictates. Hull features that dictate the use of a stringer are: bulges, casement guns, knuckles, or armor belts. The stringer may not extend more than one rib beyond where that hull feature is prominent. b) The surface of the stringer which is against the penetrable area of the hull skin shall be no thicker than 1/8" material but may be any width. c) The total vertical hard area cannot exceed 1/2" between any two ribs in the penetrable area of the hull. i.e. A ship with both a casemate deck and a defined armor bulge or belt may use two stringers provided that the weather deck is no more than 1/4" so that the combined vertical hard area between the ribs is no more than 1/2".
Yup. But on the plus side, it makes modelling things like double bulges or bulges with an armor belt possible.
Was just thinking that it is possible to do the inlaid decks (all of my ships have them) without having to place material above the fiberglass hull edge. Call me a purist in that respect. lol.
Thanks for the great tutorial, McSpuds! I might end up using this method with any fiberglass hulls that I build in the future. Beaver
You can, let's say you use 3/16" subdeck, and a 3/16" top deck, or "removable deck lids".... When you trace the inside contour of the hull on the wood, make two copies of it.... When you place the 1st subdeck, simply drop it into the hull 3/16" down from the top to leave room for the "rim" piece I make when cutting the deck lids... Then when I do the second deck as below with the 1/8" deck piece, just add it to the top.. then everything is the same as below, but all inside the glass hull... Hope all that made sense...
If you look closely, the removable decks actually drop into the permanent deck and you have no "lid" or deck" just laying on the top of the hull.... I am the same as I hate having a deck lid just sit on top of the hull.. it not only warps later, but it is very visible when the the ship is skinned and to me looks like crap... That is why I make the "rims" so that when you skin, the skin goes all the way to the top edge and you see none of the seams for the deck...
Your deck is clearly laid on top of the hull. Its your preference, which is fine. Its also much easier to do. However, i think inlaid decks sanded to follow the inner contour of the hull look better because the are more scale looking. None of the big warships ive been on had wood decking right up to the very edge of the hull. Having inlaid decking also doesnt extend the height of ship (however slight). Again its a preference thing.
