R/C Naval Combat

For $200... I'd go with this;

Visit this site

That is very tempting. Its a refurb but a great deal. I may end up getting one myself.

Well I just ordered one. I will let you know how it goes.

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Originally posted by jadfer

Well I just ordered one. I will let you know how it goes.

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hehe! cool! Why? What are you going to use it for?

ha Im an IT/Voice guy so I need a Cisco Mobility server for demo purposes with my Cisco Voice system. Im cheap so this sounds good, I am familair with the intel motherboard in the chassis and can get more of them online so unless the power supply goes out I am in good shape.

If I like the first then I will order another for virtual testing with the FREE vmware 3xi. It has a 32mb foot print.

Ummm, Justin,
That's a Pentium 4 server. Divide the clock by half (1.3ghz), and that's the performance of an AMD or current Intel Core2 processor running at that speed. Or put another way, it'd be SLOWER than the AMD 3000+ you have which is running at 2ghz. P4 haven't been manufactured in forever, but are still sitting unbought on the surplus market due to the increased power requirements and less than stellar performance for anything but multimedia apps. It also doesn't have very good VM support.

If doing the VM route: I'd recommend waiting on a sale at Fry's electronics, and getting a quad core AMD since those have greatly increased VM support (read increased SPEED) over the current Intel Core2 architecture and a bit of power savings as well. (with Intel i7, Intel catches back up again, but those are EXPENSIVE) Also get a System board with at least 4 slots on it for RAM, and then populate it with at least 8GB. RAM's cheap these days and 8GB affords for some expansion in the VM space. Realistically any modern AMD or Intel dual core will work fine. Both have VM enhancements built in that are sufficient, just AMD Quad's (and trips) and Intel's new i7 quads are peppier in that regard.

For less than $200, sometimes MUCH less, you can get a pretty decent systemboard and processor from Fry's. Just depends on what's surplus that week. 8GB of ram shouldn't run more than $100, just have to keep an eye out to follow the sale. :)

Running Linux as the host OS for the Windows VM's helps some on the performance front. Partly because a stripped down Linux uses less resources than Windows. Ubuntu Server is a good choice there. Choices for VM's are nearly endless. Nowadays it's built in with KVM (based on QEMU), but I haven't messed with that yet. For personal use, I use VirtualBox (also based on QEMU), since it's pretty easy to use and performance is decent. At work we've been using VMWare, but now are starting to lean long term towards KVM.

The big advantage of running in a VM, as you've noted already, is being able to pick up that container file, and drop it over somewhere else. Backups are VERY easy. It also gets around having to reactivate software after hardware replacements when running Windows software. That part was HUGE for me, as I swap sysboards and video out a lot. I would recommend using a RAID1 array since that's insurance built into all current systems. The disadvantage is a performance drop, primarily in DiskIO. However, this is a hobbyist site without huge requirements, so a running in a VM won't hurt it any.

Cheers
Jeff

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Originally posted by JustinScott

For $200... I'd go with this;

Visit this site

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Why do you think this is a single P4 system? I bought one and it is a dual processor XEON. Note for the others: It doesnt come with a cover so you will have to make one for yourself and the staff is very rude. However its a nice little server for the money. The drives are 15K rpm which is great also. I wish it had a raid card and will have to hit ebay to find one.

I didn't think that Xeon is based on P4 arch... is it?



I will never (READ EVER!!!) run linux in any way shape or form. Call me crazy, I just prefer that I use my OS to get things done, not to get in my way.

Intel has kept the Xeon name for quite a few years. Xeon's of that vintage were Netburst architecture, ala P4. Yes it's a dual, which helps, but it's basically the equivalent of a dual 1.3 Ghz system. I'd rather have a single 2ghz processor that has a little more predictable performance, ala an AMD 64 or an Intel Core or higher (includes new Core based Xeons). A single modern dual core would even be better. Anyway, have to be careful about the Xeon name, cause it can be either P4 OR Core architecture.

Wish you'd said something about needing a RAID card. I just gave away 3 very nice AMI MegaRAID's (of that vintage even) that would have done beautifully for this system. I finally converted my home servers to IDE RAID1 from SCSI RAID5. The expense/hassle/power usage (mainly expense) of dealing with SCSI got to be too much for maintaining home servers. With 500MB SATA drives (and now even 1TB drives) having dropped below $100, it isn't worth the slight performance gain when there is just myself and the wife occasionally hitting the server for extended data transfers.

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Originally posted by jadfer

Why do you think this is a single P4 system? I bought one and it is a dual processor XEON. Note for the others: It doesnt come with a cover so you will have to make one for yourself and the staff is very rude. However its a nice little server for the money. The drives are 15K rpm which is great also. I wish it had a raid card and will have to hit ebay to find one.

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Originally posted by JustinScott

I didn't think that Xeon is based on P4 arch... is it?

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Xeon can be P4 or Core (Core being the resurrection of the excellent PIII architecture), or as of this month, now i7. Just have to check the part numbers to verify WHICH one it is. Core or i7 are fine, but P4 is a power hungry and cpu cycle inefficient dinosaur.

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Originally posted by JustinScott

I will never (READ EVER!!!) run linux in any way shape or form. Call me crazy, I just prefer that I use my OS to get things done, not to get in my way.

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Umm, Crazy? :) Check out Ubuntu. It's rapidly becoming the OS to get things done and not get in the way. It's more like XP than Vista. Still needs some tweaks, and it's not perfect, but at the current rate that MS is going with Vista, it or it's successor will be the dominant OS in 5 years or so. I will say as an MCSE in an increasingly Linux focused world, I've been retraining to deal with the new realities just so I still have a job. We've now dropped ALL future Windows development and became a pretty much Linux shop.


Cheers
Jeff

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Originally posted by admiraljkb

Xeon can be P4 or Core (Core being the resurrection of the excellent PIII architecture), or as of this month, now i7. Just have to check the part numbers to verify WHICH one it is. Core or i7 are fine, but P4 is a power hungry and cpu cycle inefficient dinosaur.

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I know, but I thought I checked this particular one to not be P4 based... Did I just imagine that OR did I make a mistake? ie, Did you check it?

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Originally posted by admiraljkb
Umm, Crazy? :)

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:) Crazy like a fox! :) I've always wanted to say that! :)

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Originally posted by admiraljkb
It's rapidly becoming the OS to get things done and not get in the way. It's more like XP than Vista.

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When it is the OS to get things done & not get in the way, I'll consider it. For right now, I think I'll just stick with Windows Server '08. I like it just fine. :) If my shop did website work, I might be singing a different tune & welcome the chance to learn something for work. But I'm a thick client dev, if anything... I'll be moving to embedded soon enough. I don't want the overhead of learning a ..linux (yuck).. OS as well as getting a new site off the ground.. ;)

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Originally posted by JustinScott

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Originally posted by admiraljkb

Xeon can be P4 or Core (Core being the resurrection of the excellent PIII architecture), or as of this month, now i7. Just have to check the part numbers to verify WHICH one it is. Core or i7 are fine, but P4 is a power hungry and cpu cycle inefficient dinosaur.

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I know, but I thought I checked this particular one to not be P4 based... Did I just imagine that OR did I make a mistake? ie, Did you check it?

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I didn't originally check because SurplusComputers didn't give the model. I was going off the age of the components around it to place it in the P4/Netburst era of the Xeon. (They've had these on surplus with a bunch of other P4 stuff for the last year or so) Looking at the newly revised website, they give the processor model now.
Found the following reference to that part number after googling it: "available starting from Jun 13, 2003". That places it squarely in the P4/Netburst era.

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Originally posted by JustinScott

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Originally posted by admiraljkb
Umm, Crazy? :)

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:) Crazy like a fox! :) I've always wanted to say that! :)

quote:

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Originally posted by admiraljkb
It's rapidly becoming the OS to get things done and not get in the way. It's more like XP than Vista.

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When it is the OS to get things done & not get in the way, I'll consider it. For right now, I think I'll just stick with Windows Server '08. I like it just fine. :) If my shop did website work, I might be singing a different tune & welcome the chance to learn something for work. But I'm a thick client dev, if anything... I'll be moving to embedded soon enough. I don't want the overhead of learning a ..linux (yuck).. OS as well as getting a new site off the ground.. ;)

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Hehe. Trust me the trying to learn new stuff and having a bunch of other stuff going on and having a spouse is enough to make one hold off as long as possible. Things were much easier when I was young/single for this kind of stuff. In thick clients, they'll be Windows for a while, but the embedded space (like I'm in) is rapidly (rabidly even) going Linux. I'm kinda astounded by the speed of conversions now. I think Windows will be entirely pushed out of that space in 5 years or less barring them doing something incredibly great to overcome the current momentum. Seems like the big anti-MS movement in that space that was accelerated by Vista's big public flop and negative perception. Realistically, there are a lot of server items that still are much easier/faster to do in Windows than Linux. Not sure how much longer that will be true, but in my opinion Server 2008 is a GREAT Server OS, especially for the embedded market. Just was a couple years too late to stop Linux's current march. So I adjust and keep moving. :)

Wait? What do you mean by embedded? I meant micro controllers... ie, too small to have an OS at all.

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Originally posted by JustinScott

Wait? What do you mean by embedded? I meant micro controllers... ie, too small to have an OS at all.

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Hehe. Different Embedded market. ;) That *is* kind of a broad term. To clarify, I'm involved with large embedded telecom systems with an OS under them.

;) I do medical (EEG) brain machines.