R/C Naval Combat

I've chosen DotNetNuke4 for the new RCNCv2.

What is a CMS?
Visit this site


I've considered:

Umbraco
Mambo
Joomla!
MediaWiki
PHP-Nuke
and a few others I can't remember...


DotNetNuke seems to give use everything we want & need. So unless anyone has any input.. DotNetNuke is the platform for our next website!! YEAHH!

When are u looking to implement it justin?

Whatever you can find if it improves what we have here already you got my support Justin.

I was hoping to 'go live' sometime early next year, but with the ...ummm trouble my buddy is in; the guy who is hosting this server. It might be sooner, a lot sooner.

Ooooh, now I'm all excited!!!!!!

Kenny, I'm probably going to need you in particular. The system as it exists will go away. I think I'm going to make you an admin so you have access to all the built in file system & newsletters system.

I think the only thing I need to make scuttlebutt work is a email server... Remember, I'm hosting the whole thing... which means the email server too. Unfortunately, I know email server will need to be purchased. (Remember I already purchased the server, Windows Server OS '08, & MSSQL database). I prefer a MS exchange solution, and I think I can get one for somewhere around $100. I'll get the details worked out & probably start up a collection for that soon. If 'my buddy's' server gets shutdown... I can transfer this site in a couple days... but PMs & emails (including mine) will just stop.

The upside is, I will have total control over the email. I can provide quality @rcnavalcombat.com emails to anyone who wants one.

Justin.. you bought all that! (server, 08 server, mssql) that is not cheap. Where will you put the server? I am not sure if you are a computer guru or not but if I may make a few suggestions let me know.

I would love suggestions.

I am a professional software engineer. However, I'm not a network engineer or IT... So setting up a server is new to me. I do have it running, the new website is getting served correctly. But whether I missed a security setting or two... pphhh! donno. So I'm always open for suggestions.

Again, this new website is dedicated to everyone. I want everyone to work together to build it so the community has pride and ownership in it.


Where will I put it... hmmmm.. Not sure I understand the question. In my house, connected to my network. My current ISP is pretty lousy (inconsistent service), but after my house is built (Dec 24) I'll have a few additional options. My hope is I'll be able to find one with sufficient upstream bandwidth for relatively cheap. I have found one for ~$100/mo that seems to be overkill up&down for our needs... So I'm still searching for the final combination.

Ok well... lets see.
I am a network server tech among other things.. so give me the server specs IE: ram, hd, procesors speed and cores, number or processors, etc. Then I will put together a suggested plan of action for you.

1x Athlon 64 3000+
RAM 4GB
HD 1x 80GB 7200RPM


Windows Server 2008 Enterprise 32bit (64bit is also available but not installed)
SQL Server 2008 Enterprise


The configuration seems a bit like putting a 94octane gas in a pinto; but ehhh.. The machine was cheap & it is keeping up just fine. I will upgrade/replace it if and when it needs to be.

1. you could put 2008 ent as planned but run the HyperV virtual environment. Windows 2008 ent. licensing allows for 1 physical and 4 virtual installations, so your single copy is worth 5 servers. Then you cun run sql on one virtual, then your cms on another, etc.

I would never put everything on one server because all you need is a drive to fail and you have to rebuild everythign and trust me sql server is not just a simple install or copying a directory. Recovery is complicated. The same goes for exchange for that matter. Exchange licensing in this user model would be prohibitively expensive as each mailbox (more or less) requires a client license not to mention the internet license (last I checked)....

There is a generic exchange compatible server I read about and I will search to find it. My suggestion is in this application to go with a pop3 server of which there are many. I have used seatlle labs and another which I will have to look up for you. There are no licensing fees for users like with exchange.

Drop me an email and maybe we can talk on the phone about this.

I am currently setting up a blade server which would be perfect.. alas it will ship soon.

I would suggest planning some sort of backup strategy - I prefer a raid5 setup with offsite backups if at all possible. As jadfer notes you're one drive failure away from a lot of loss and headaches. To differ though - personally I wouldn't go with a virtualization strategy here, its overkill and for the most part unneeded complication in my opinion.

I've also never had a particular problem restoring MSSQL dbs from backups for databases of comparable sizes to what would be behind this. For small databases such as for forums such as these, complete DB backups are small and quick, eliminating the need for differential backups and making the task of restoration a walk in the park (Central Park sometimes, but still a park).

To echo jadfer again though, I'd steer away from Exchange unless you can get your hands on an no-CALs-needed server license. If you don't really want to give out nifty @rcnavalcombat addresses to people then you can look in to running IIS' smtp service or send your outbound emails via a service like gmail (this is also a fairly good temporary solution to maintaining outbound email service for notifications). One thing to bear in mind - your ISP may frown on you running a mail server from within their network and may kill your outbound messages if you are running your own mail service.

Hey Justin,

I'm willing to help out however I can - just email me whatever you need help with! What's the likelyhood of getting those club features I talked to you about in this upgrade?

quote:

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Originally posted by nwmyers

personally I wouldn't go with a virtualization strategy here, its overkill and for the most part unneeded complication in my opinion.

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I agree with you, I don't see virtualization in this case helping anything... maybe we are wrong, though, Johnny what reasons do you have for the increase in complication?

quote:

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Originally posted by nwmyers

I would suggest planning some sort of backup strategy

I've never had a problem restoring MSSQL dbs from [full] backups

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I agree with you, I estimate the forum & website DBs will not grow more than 30MB/yr. (unless I store media in the DB, but I don't understand why I'd do that) That is absolutely acceptable for a full DB backup strategy & not an incremental one.

A Backup strategy is of course something I have been considering. I have a off server NAS that should do just fine for the immediate future. Secondary HDs are also a cheap option.

What I think I'll actually do is,
1. Do a frequent auto full backup of the DB & all website files.
2. Keep no more or less than one week of backup data on the NAS & of course the source code elsewhere on the network.

quote:

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Originally posted by nwmyers

I prefer a raid5 setup with offsite backups if at all possible.

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Hmmmm.... please remember, this is a hobby website. True, the server has a professional grade environment. But as I said before, those were purchased for other reasons & just never used. I would never dedicate enterprise level applications to a hobby grade website... however, I do have then at my disposal & if I do need them... at least now they are setup ready to go.



Interesting about the exchange server... didn't think they would be that $ greedy. heheh.. MS does love its money doesn't it!? :)

OK, so who has what suggestion on a mail server? It needs to support webmail, pop3, & imap4... Otherwise, I don't care too much.

I'll have to look and see what restrictions the ISPs might have... But I'm tired of fighting email servers via some technician. I want to have everything just, simply, under my control.

I know this has very little to do with internet, forums, etc. but when I first saw this thread, I started wondering what navy the CMS Cho-Sen was from. I was thinking it was probably a Chinese cruiser of some sort, until I read a little further...

How do you do these cool replies with quotes...

quote:
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Originally posted by nwmyers

personally I wouldn't go with a virtualization strategy here, its overkill and for the most part unneeded complication in my opinion.

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I said the same thing when it was proposed to me but in the end it SIMPLIFIES it. There are a lot of reasons to use virtualization in my opinion but lets focus on a few issues here.

1. By splitting the applications onto seperate Virtual Machines (VM) you can create partitions if you will, so if you have a DB expert that is helping you out and needed remote access but didnt need access to the mail server or other critical applications then you would be able to have their expert assistance in that application.

2. Having all applications on a single host is a thing of the past. Anyone can have opinions but that is a fact and it is where the industry is headed. When you have everything loaded on one machine and you get a hang in an app like the mail server for example then you have to take down the entire machine turning off everything including the forum. Sometimes start/restart of the service will not fix the problem. One good example is the retrospect backup program problem that couldnt be cleared without a reboot. By having each MAJOR component/application in its own Virtual Machine you can isolate problems related to that application from the host machine. So you could have the email server down but the forum and database would still be in operation (you can have that with one machine but then you run the risk of affecting other machines. Also each VM can install programs and reboot within itself with no effect on any other VM or the host.

3. Backups and Recovery - Great! You can take periodic backups of the virtual machine in addition to the backup software that in effect would be the same as making a disk image of the machine. This way if you lose a drive you wouldnt have to recreate everything AND if you had a spare machine you just pull the Hard drive put it in the other machine turn it on and then power on each VM and you are only looking at an hour of down time instead of 1 or 2 days of re-installation (around your job and personal life). Keep in mind this is a hobby server so you dont want to have to pull an all-nighter just to get the system working again. Another idea is if you have this problem you could copy the virtual files to a disk and send them anywhere to be hosted temporarily if needed. You just need to update the dns host records and you are in business. One more point.. Virtual Machines are not hardware dependent. You can run them on ANY host as long as they have the amount of ram and disk space available to them. You copy 1 or 2 files (big ones) between machines.
4. UPGRADING - to upgrade you will have to reinstall ALL the apps, then migrate the data, then check for data problems, solve all the little problems that pop up. You IT guys know what I mean. However if you use a virtual environment then you just install OS on new host, setup the virtual environment, copy the vm files, power on the vm. DONE. Seriously what is complicated now.... that IS EASY!

There is much more to it than just this but these are major reasons. And as to complicated how tough is it to install the virtual server, create the VM, then install the OS? Then you in the admin window you can click on the VM in the window (thumbnail view) to use it like a remote desktop.

I added this service in two client locations and efficiency of support went through the roof.

Plus you have help.. load the os on the host and I will remote in and setup the Virtual Environment for you.. Piece of Cake!

Also on the SMTP typically changing the default smtp port to something other than 25 should bypass this problem. If not do what I did and go to www.dyndns.com and buy their mail relay account. It is based on a number of relays per day and it was like $40 a year I think.

The mail serve we have running at customer sites is mail enable. http://www.mailenable.com/ We bought the pro version. I see the enterprise version supports SQL or MYSQL.

I hope this sheds a little light on things but this is what I learned after I was introduced to it.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer

How do you do these cool replies with quotes...

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Click the


I should start out with mentioning I've been using virtualization for years.



You have several good points & several irrelevant ones. mmm... Not sure what I want to do. Let me talk through it.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer

DB expert ... didnt need access ...

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IT guys are crazy about only authorizing the absolute minimum you need to do your job & nothing more. If I trust a DB guy enough to remote in to my home server, I trust him/her. If they want to loose my friendship by screwing with my email... phh! Go ahead, what a simple & cheap way to find out my friend is not a friend... Someone I think of as a friend could do far more damage to me than destroying my data.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer
...is where the industry is headed. When you have everything loaded on one machine and you get a hang in an app like the mail server for example then you have to take down the entire machine turning off everything including the forum.

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Again this is not a critical website, no offense but if it shuts down for a few hours... it shuts down for a few hours. Not a huge problem.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer
You can take periodic backups of the virtual machine in addition to the backup software that in effect would be the same as making a disk image of the machine. This way if you lose a drive you wouldnt have to recreate everything. ...copy the virtual files to a disk and send them anywhere to be hosted temporarily if needed.

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Now that is a good point. Copying the .vhd (or whatever it is) is a lot easier than performing a disk image backup.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer
..instead of 1 or 2 days of re-installation (around your job and personal life). ...pull an all-nighter just to get the system working again.

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C'mon... don't exaggerate! If I image the disk, it won't take that long to reimage it. & believe me, I love you guys... but I'm not going to be pulling any all nighters! Being alert & creative @ my job is more important than keeping this site operational 24/7.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer
Seriously what is complicated now.... that IS EASY!

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It gets complicated in two places.

1.) Using multiple VMs is out. I don't want to be dealing with multiple ips, firewalls, & a host of connection strings just to connect two apps together on the same machine. & so help me if you pull out "service oriented design", I'll smack you! :)

2.) The VM uses memory & CPU just the same as the host OS. Which means even less is available to the apps & DB.



The trade is reduced system performance for simplistic data backup. oi. I'll have to sleep on it. What do you think, nwmyers? (Nick isn't it?)

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer
Plus you have help..

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[:D] I feel warm all over [:I]

with the new hypervisor in Server 2008 I am not sure that you would see a performance hit. I know vmware is consolidating servers 10 to 1 in some cases.

quote:

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Originally posted by jadfer

with the new hypervisor in Server 2008 I am not sure that you would see a performance hit. I know vmware is consolidating servers 10 to 1 in some cases.

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Hmmm.. OK! Why not then?

If nothing else; this will be a good excuse to test out how complex a full restoring would be.


So, Hypervisor... Is that built in or do I download it like Virtual Machine?

Jadfer makes some good points for things that it does simplify - and to be honest I wouldn't be very concerned about resource hogging from this site and its backend components - you'll probably use more memory running the OS for each instance than the cumulative applications will use. That is a point to keep in mind though, you're not exactly using an enterprise server (unless you are and didn't mention it - but it sounds more like an older version of whats on my desktop...) here, the hardware isn't optimized towards running such an environment - I have no idea what sort of impact that will have on performance on a virtualized setup - likely negligible though for your purposes.

It seems pretty much like none of the primary reasons to do it or not do it really are of any importance, what it really boils down to is how many GeekPoints do you want to have for your setup. :D

I'd still advocate looking in to a RAID5 setup, you can get a PCI-E controller card for it (that things motherboard probably has at least one free pci-e slot) and 3 reasonable drives for not too much money (200$ ish? - haven't priced this). No need to go with the full hot-swap environment. It would be fast enough for the purposes of this site and buy you a lot more time in the event of a failing drive. I understand that this is a hobby and you'd like to avoid paying much, if any, out of pocket for it (trust me, I've definately been there), but it is something worth considering down the line if you stumble across some spare change (or if you pass the hat around).

And yes, it is Nick.