R/C Naval Combat

For what it is worth, Clippard actually makes a whisker actuator. If you are connecting the mines by pipes, you will need to have them deep enough for the ships to clear the frame.

Also, keep in mind that a ship is only required to be penetrable for 1" below the waterline, and the mine cannot be angled to shoot above the horizontal for safety. This means the mine will need to be less than 1" below the surface, and will be pretty visible and easily avoided.



Then there is the issue of the whisker wire penetrating and impaling the ship. Ship might be damaged but held up by the mine system.

Of course, all of this leaves aside the fact that mines are currently a defined weapon system in clubs that permit mines (this system does not fit the definition in those rules), and that they work reasonably well in their assigned role as is.

Remember, just because a thing can be done does not mean it should be done.

Can this be done? Probably. Should it be done? I am thinking probably not. Like the torpedo discussion, this is a case of huge effort and expense to solve a problem that is not existent. For the amount of time and effort and expense to produce a small minefield with, say, 1/2 dozen mines, you can build an armed ship or two and drive the weapons to your target.

Let's tally it up with the porposed system.

Minimum requirements for a mine system with only 1/2 dozen mines:
6 barrels.
6 accumulators.
6 valves with whatever actuators are appropriate.
6 servos.
at least 1 RX.
at least one battery.
Framework.

Minimum requirements for a ship with 3 barrels to a side, also single shot.
6 barrels
2 accumulators.
2 valves with whatever actuators are appropriate.
3 servos or 2 servos and one 2 way electronic switch.
Motor and ESC
Only one RX.
Only one battery (unless you want two for balance)
Frame.
Oh, and skin for the frame.[:)]

Of course, that is just my .02, ymmv.

Oh, and what if a duck, turtle, etc. happens to swim by and hits the trigger? Safety is one of the reasons why most clubs that I am aware of require manual triggering (not just arming) of any gun (or gunlike object).

Cheers,

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Originally posted by Kotori87

Well I don't have PowerPoint so I cannot view the file...

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Easily rectified: http://openoffice.org

It's what I use at home now.

Cheers
Jeff

I have a rough sketch of the soleniod to gun plumbing, but the file manager wont let me into my folder to upload the picture.

I have a rough sketch of the soleniod to gun plumbing, but the file manager wont let me into my folder to upload the picture.

I have the design of the plumbing of the mine using clippard parts and tube from battlers connection. The uploader is being a pain so once i can i'll upload the design.

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Originally posted by donanton



What if the ship goes down, but when you turn the air off the ship rises back up? It also raises the problem of ships returning to the surface upside down. And staying like that.

Yes I am still going to build my mine.

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As far as a ship dropping then rising rightside-up, I'd figure that could be assumed to represent a vessel that was either able to tolerate the mine hit or simply triggered the mine(s) at a range that didn't cause damage sufficient to sink the veesel. As for a ship returning to the surface capsized, I'm not sure what I'd say in that case. For thinner-skinned veesels, it's possible that the collapse of the gas bubble/impact of the water could potentially also cause ruptures...just a bit of food for thought.

I have also put some thought and study into the idea of mines, like the earlier descriptions in this thread my unit would have a sphere with a ring of barrels around it holdin1-2 ¼ in rounds, the mines would have a system of hair triggers mounted on them (electric switches), that would lead out of the bottom of the mine and into the anchor, which is a small waterproof box containing a Co2 powerlet and a solenoid which is attached to the switches from the mine. A 1/8 in airline connects it (powerlet) to the mine. The mine could become as small as a Ping-Pong ball and relatively hard to spot. The witches on multiple mines could be connected by a piece of monofilament (fishing line) that would trip when a ship runs over it multiple mines could also be hooked up to the same anchor. And for retrieval you just use an impenetrable ship with a large fork like device to hook the pipe beneath the mine, and if it goes off there’s no harm done. The only part I haven’t figured out is a remote arming/disarming device, which would also help in retrieving the mines, but the use of a ship would still be a good idea to prevent any harm to the retriever.

Anybody with ideas on a remote control arming/disarming control would be helpful, remember it need to be a powerful signal to work underwater.

If you would like I could draw up some schematics and try to put them up somewhere.

Use a 2 channel remote with a micro receiver tu make a servo push the contacts towards and away from the solenoid's power source.

A quick off topic question, how do I post pictures, anywhere or how do I get them up so others can see them, so I can put up a diagram of my mine?
, i'm thinking about usind a relay instead of a servo to act as the arming switch for the solenoid

I also have developed a plan to arm and disarm my mine. It uses a simple single channel radio, like you mentioned, but instead of powering a radio, it powers a relay or a transistor, that will complete the circuit. The only disadvantage is that the transmitter and receiver would be, that they both must be constantly sending and receiving, to maintain the fact that it is armed. The second disadvantage is the box/anchor will be fairly large. (1x2.5x3 approximately, but it can power more than one mine).

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Originally posted by Kotori87

I was actually thinking more like a large compressor with one of those huge 30-gallon air tanks. In order to be effective, you've got to put out a tremendous amount of air in a very short time, over a reasonably large area. Suddenly and rapidly venting 30 gallons (volume) of air, at 50 PSI or so, would hopefully do the trick. I did an experiment several years ago, involving a MAT-2 and MJV-2 valve underwater, and just that little bit could probably capsize anything smaller than two feet long. Bigger ships would require significantly more, and if they have a good deck seal then you're even less likely to have success.

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Naw! you need a huge lever valve. I posted something on the other minefield forum site. The larger the valve the more it delivers. I have acess to these valve in ther ship yard I work at.

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Originally posted by CPT. Jr


I also have developed a plan to arm and disarm my mine. It uses a simple single channel radio, like you mentioned, but instead of powering a radio, it powers a relay or a transistor, that will complete the circuit. The only disadvantage is that the transmitter and receiver would be, that they both must be constantly sending and receiving, to maintain the fact that it is armed. The second disadvantage is the box/anchor will be fairly large. (1x2.5x3 approximately, but it can power more than one mine).

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Get a fishing rig called an umbrella rig. It has 4 arms with points about 15" from opposite points. Have 1 camoflauged floating thing with the receiver wire going through it so the radio signal would not have to penetrate the water at all.

Hey guys I'm new here, but I thought I'd put in my own idea...

Instead of just using bubbles to try to sink a ship(like Mythbusters did), why not try to replicate the same effect of a real mine/depth charge? If you had a small to medium balloon tethered to the pond floor, then inside the balloon have say, a 12 gram CO2 tank. When your sensor, whatever it may be, senses a close by or touching ship, the balloon expands under water until it ruptures, causing a pretty strong shock wave to the boat. Hopefully strong enough to ruture some balsa.

Its just an idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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Originally posted by Medgineer

Hey guys I'm new here, but I thought I'd put in my own idea...

Instead of just using bubbles to try to sink a ship(like Mythbusters did), why not try to replicate the same effect of a real mine/depth charge? If you had a small to medium balloon tethered to the pond floor, then inside the balloon have say, a 12 gram CO2 tank. When your sensor, whatever it may be, senses a close by or touching ship, the balloon expands under water until it ruptures, causing a pretty strong shock wave to the boat. Hopefully strong enough to ruture some balsa.

Its just an idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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Try it & see what happens.

JM

You guys ever see what an air bag does when it explodes. The one I saw was put in an upside down garbage can. It flaired out the can on the bottom and lifted the can 15 feet in the air. I am afraid if this thing was used underwater we would have a scale atomic bomb blast. Without the radiation though.

Definitely bring a video camera then :D

indeed

gotta agree with Don and NWM :)

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Originally posted by Fire Power Dan

You guys ever see what an air bag does when it explodes. The one I saw was put in an upside down garbage can. It flaired out the can on the bottom and lifted the can 15 feet in the air. I am afraid if this thing was used underwater we would have a scale atomic bomb blast. Without the radiation though.

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Do you mean a car (occupant protection) air bag?

Presumably, the bag (inflated) was larger than the can. Obviously, they're designed to be deployed close to people with minimal injuries (compared to potential injuries without the bag).

Effect of deploying a car airbag underwater are TBD, but probably not the same as releasing a large amount of gas quickly, without containing it in a bag. Since water doesn't compress much, I'm not sure that the effect on the surface - even if it's only a foot or so away - would be enough to damage or sink a ship. Again, somebody might want to try one & see (1st test without any ships around). On the plus side, airbags & components should be easy to find. OTOH, cost & inability to reuse might be a killer.

JM

quote:

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Originally posted by Fire Power Dan

You guys ever see what an air bag does when it explodes. The one I saw was put in an upside down garbage can. It flaired out the can on the bottom and lifted the can 15 feet in the air. I am afraid if this thing was used underwater we would have a scale atomic bomb blast. Without the radiation though.

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That would make for quite an interesting scenario of what would have happened had an atom bomb ever been used during a fleet engagement.[;)]