Eurobusker
 Midshipman
 Posts:22

 | | 17 Aug 2009 01:40 PM | | Ive used a simple PWM speed control circuit (this one below in fact) and found something very interesting. The batteries last much longer than ever and the speed is 28 (for my HMS Erin) and not 27 or 29 or decided by using different sizes of prop or by using spinners. The pwm switches on at a certain frequency and off at a certain frequency. thus, the motors speed is regulated. the most interesting thing is that the motor during it's ON phase is at full power, making a speed pre-regulated, which is not without its full power performance. Due to the moments of being "OFF" there is no usage of the battery and Ive found that 1hour with the motor directly connected used up most of a 7.2AH battery equalled 1hr with a 2.3AH battery using a pwm. The weight difference is important, but the best thing is the difference in space taken by a battery. The circuit is simple to make and with 2 500 motors never got hot, even in the french sunshine. 
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jadfer
 Lieutenant Commander
 Posts:570

 | | 17 Aug 2009 02:46 PM | | Any pictures? | | | |
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Eurobusker
 Midshipman
 Posts:22

 | | 17 Aug 2009 04:51 PM | | sure, its about the size of a 2 euro coin.. 2x3 cms 
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RichelieuBB Veteran
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1345

 | | 17 Aug 2009 07:05 PM | | AKA an Electronic Speed Control.  Good job actually making one. That takes skills and knowledge most people like me do not have. | | Mike Mangus
Beware the French Revolution! Operational:
HMS Erin DN
FN Richelieu BB
FN Verite PDN
Under Construction:
FN Mogador DE
FN Gascogne BB (Treaty)
FN Bretagne (1/96) (delayed)
Le Requin Xebec (AoS)
Mothballed:
FN Bearn CV
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Iceman
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1186

 | | 17 Aug 2009 11:02 PM | | Wow, very interesting. perhaps the next time I order electronics...... | | Rob A.
USS Alabama USS Arizona USS Saratoga
DKM Bismarck USS John Brown
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYBG/ | |
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Eurobusker
 Midshipman
 Posts:22

 | | 20 Aug 2009 01:47 PM | | Its true that one has to learn yet another skill, in order to build a speed controller. But... making a battleship that shoots ball bearings (as we do) uses a great number of disciplines and sklills, from cutting and forming wood and plastic and metal, understanding gas movements are just 2 examples. the parts cost me (here in france) 10€, about 14 dollars (about 700 dollars australian lol) and the time I took to solder all the bits was half an hour. but any person can build it in an evening. Ill take some fotos of the back of the board and make a scehatic of ther vero board so it can be even simpler to do. | | | |
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warspiteIRC Veteran
 Lieutenant
 Posts:451

 | | 20 Aug 2009 05:00 PM | | how much amps can the circuit handle? Fast Gun motors use more current than big guns. | | | |
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Iceman
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1186

 | | 21 Aug 2009 01:56 AM | | The circuit says 2 amps max and you're running two 500's, not even hot. Fast gun does draw more amps, direct or gear drive? Mine jumped when I went direct. I look forward to the picts. | | Rob A.
USS Alabama USS Arizona USS Saratoga
DKM Bismarck USS John Brown
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYBG/ | |
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Eurobusker
 Midshipman
 Posts:22

 | | 21 Aug 2009 12:13 PM | | 2 amps max is an iteresting answer. in fact the motors never draw full current asd they are "ON" for some of the time and "OFF" for the rest of the time. I couldnt find the Transistor required and so I took an equivalent which had the same properties, but handles 5 Amps. In general, a PWM cct runs at 90 to 98 percent efficiency, and at the voltage required. I used a TIP40 transistor just to be safe and WITH a heatsink. theory for those who want to know more can be found here.... http://pcbheaven.com/wikipages/PWM_Modulation/
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wrenow
 Lieutenant
 Posts:311

 | | 25 Aug 2009 01:05 AM | | Am I correct that what you have is a single sped PWM control with no reverse?
Cheers, | | Wreno NTXBG
USS Lake Shore
USS Reluctant
USS Nathanial Greene
Dunkerque
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Iceman
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1186

 | | 25 Aug 2009 06:05 AM | | I got the 2 amps from the drawing. Right by the motor + and - it says two amps max. direct drive or gears??? | | Rob A.
USS Alabama USS Arizona USS Saratoga
DKM Bismarck USS John Brown
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYBG/ | |
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wrenow
 Lieutenant
 Posts:311

 | | 25 Aug 2009 09:33 AM | | Another question. You say 2 500 motors. Are you talking, say 500TB (small motors marketed by Tamiya as the Solar Motor 02) that dray one amp or less, even at full stall?
Or something more like a 540, 545, 550, or 555? A 550, in particular, can draw between 80-90A at full stall even though they may only draw 1-2A on the bench.
The stall draw for some common 6v+ motors in the 5XX series other than the 500TB 540RH, 20.4-37A depending on model 545SH, 45A 550PC, 70A 550VC, 85A yes, 85A, not 8.5A 555PC, 9.9A 555PX, 7A
Are you planning on waterproofing the circuit?
What happens when the variable resister (potentiometer) gets wet and the resistance changes?
And, while this PWM unit is adjustable, only on the bench, correct? Not from the radio like a regular ESC?
Cheers, | | Wreno NTXBG
USS Lake Shore
USS Reluctant
USS Nathanial Greene
Dunkerque
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warspiteIRC Veteran
 Lieutenant
 Posts:451

 | | 25 Aug 2009 10:01 AM | | If you put it before a MAG speed control, you can control the top speed and let the Mag do the reversing. The pot is set for full speed (for the ship).
Marty | | | |
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warspiteIRC Veteran
 Lieutenant
 Posts:451

 | | 25 Aug 2009 10:03 AM | | if you want just forward then attach the pot to a servo. Some clubs used to not allow reverse, don't know if that is still true.
Marty | | | |
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crzyhawk
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2130

 | | 25 Aug 2009 12:24 PM | | Posted By warspiteIRC on 25 Aug 2009 10:01 AM
If you put it before a MAG speed control, you can control the top speed and let the Mag do the reversing. The pot is set for full speed (for the ship).
Marty
That's brilliant Marty. I can't believe I didnt think of that with the 50% reverse speed controls I have. I just might have to throw a MAG into the Belleau Wood!
| | | HMS Invincible
USS Salem (CA-139)
USS Belleau Wood (CVL-24)
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wrenow
 Lieutenant
 Posts:311

 | | 25 Aug 2009 05:54 PM | | Both excellent points, Marty, but then either option introduces mechanical (the servo) failure points, not to mention taking up more space/weight, etc.. Still have the issue with moisture in the control pot, of course.
A waterproof ESC eliminates all the mechanical and servo issues, of course, and many are even more compact than the circuit shown here. And, if the motors only draw a max of 1A each, the Vex Robotics Motor Controller (ESC) is only $10 for a fully reversable ES that runs directly off the RX servo bus (no separate wiring for the motor power).
Cheers, | | Wreno NTXBG
USS Lake Shore
USS Reluctant
USS Nathanial Greene
Dunkerque
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warspiteIRC Veteran
 Lieutenant
 Posts:451

 | | 25 Aug 2009 06:25 PM | | not necesarily, Wreno. Mag switch with a team delta board (rce220) does not use a servo. ;^}
Marty | | | |
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Iceman
 Rear Admiral (RDML)
 Posts:1186

 | | 25 Aug 2009 08:11 PM | | I love it when the minds meet and talk electronics!!! | | Rob A.
USS Alabama USS Arizona USS Saratoga
DKM Bismarck USS John Brown
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYBG/ | |
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Kotori87
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2279

 | | 25 Aug 2009 09:45 PM | | As long as you can keep up with the "tech talk". I'm doing good so far, but not sure for how much longer... | | | There are 101 different types of people: those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who just can't count... | |
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wrenow
 Lieutenant
 Posts:311

 | | 26 Aug 2009 10:13 AM | | Posted By warspiteIRC on 25 Aug 2009 06:25 PM
not necesarily, Wreno. Mag switch with a team delta board (rce220) does not use a servo. ;^}
Marty
True, Marty but you mentioned a MAG switch (which uses a servo as originally designed and usually implemented from what I have seen). Personally, I have never seen a reversing MAG switch made from a Team Delta. Is it done?
And using s servo to control the pot is still using a servo....... Can't do that with a Team Delta (OK you could use a passle of them with resistor bridges to get the effect, I guess). BTW, as for the reverse, it is important to look at local club rules. The club I bleong to, NTXBG, does not allow combat reverse. You can use reverse throttle to stop, or to back off of a grounding, or some other obvious problems (trying to demoss), and in port. If it is not obvious, you usually announce and see fif there are any objections. But, you do not reverse direction in battle to better your position or get out of a tough spot. Makes you plan a bit further ahead, and makes a lack of situational awareness a bit more fatal. It is so ingrained in us, in fact, that some have been known to feel funny using reverse and avoid it in the Texas Cage Match, where all the ships are trapped in port for the battle, with little maneuvering room, and reverse is allowed at will. Some clubs have no such restrictions. | | Wreno NTXBG
USS Lake Shore
USS Reluctant
USS Nathanial Greene
Dunkerque
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