Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

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Windrider0275
 Ensign
 Posts:115

 | | 19 Dec 2009 03:18 PM | | Hey, tokes, I just saw the Aoba's hull at BC website, it is a real perty' rendition. You will have a great looking battler when you get her built up! Thanks for pointing the new arrival out! Steve  | | | |
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 20 Dec 2009 06:15 AM | | NP. I am going to have dig up my old pics of my pure Balsa version of AOBA and post them here. I told the GF about it and she says... so when are you going to get time to build it. See that's what I like about a large collection of unbuilt hulls. When I do get the time I have many choices. Yeah I like the lines and hey it has bulges too. Perfect. My thing is no way I could ever beat the bow up.
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crzyhawk
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2130

 | | 20 Dec 2009 08:14 PM | | I can't wait to see an Aoba out there. The only problem I see, is that BC has it listed as a 2 rudder ship which is incorrect. Both the Aoba and Furutaka classes only had single rudders. | | | HMS Invincible
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Bob
 Commander
 Posts:601

 | | 21 Dec 2009 08:50 AM | | They did have two rudders at times. One of our members found a book listing twin rudders, a print with two rudders and photos of the ship with twin rudders. I have seen them, he even had the book translated from Japanese to English. Turns out the Japs changed the rudders on the ships durring differnt refits. No I don't have them and he does not ever look around this forum. | | | |
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 21 Dec 2009 09:41 AM | | I heard that too. It is possible. Maybe with this ship twin rudder will work better. I had a single rudder and it's not maneuverable. Twin would help it a lot. | | | |
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crzyhawk
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2130

 | | 21 Dec 2009 01:50 PM | | I'd have to see the photos to believe them. The best researched book on IJN cruisers I have ever seen, Japanese cruisers of the Pacific War by Lacrroix and Wells, lists them with a single rudder and even gives the total rudder area. It details the extent of the refits and modifications and says nothing about a second rudder being added or deleted.
In the Mogami section of that book, it goes on to state that the Mogamis had twin rudders unlike the preceeding Class A cruisers (Heavy cruisers) which would include the Aobas and Furutakas. | | | HMS Invincible
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 21 Dec 2009 03:44 PM | | Ik now the Mogami had dual rudders but I am pretty sure that the Aoba and Furtaka classes had only a single rudder. | | | |
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crzyhawk
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2130

 | | 22 Dec 2009 06:09 AM | | Even with a single rudder I think the Aoba could be a very very good cruiser. Even though you have built one, experience has probably taught you a lot since that first one in the 80s, and there is probably a lot you might do different with motors, gears, shaft placement, rudder placement prop size/pitch and number of blades...all of which might improve the turning. I think another key would be to keep it as light as possible instead of building to max displacement. The less mass you have, the quicker the maneuvering will be. | | | HMS Invincible
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 22 Dec 2009 08:38 AM | | Posted By crzyhawk on 22 Dec 2009 06:09 AM
Even with a single rudder I think the Aoba could be a very very good cruiser. Even though you have built one, experience has probably taught you a lot since that first one in the 80s, and there is probably a lot you might do different with motors, gears, shaft placement, rudder placement prop size/pitch and number of blades...all of which might improve the turning. I think another key would be to keep it as light as possible instead of building to max displacement. The less mass you have, the quicker the maneuvering will be. AOBA hull does not have a lot of room inside. Your options are very limited with regard to placement of shafts. You can angle the props in but the effect on a long, narrow, low hull at speed creates a very bad rolling effect. The Aoba has a lot of Superstructure topside which needs to be very light . I found that a ship underweight does not maintain the same kind of stability that a ship at max displacement has. On a hull that is long, fast and narrow and shallow you need the props deep to maintain thrust in your turn,unless you use 2 blade shallow props which at high speed work well even with the blade tips out of the water. Ships like this will lean hard even with less topweight. Some of the topweight you can't avoid such as the cannons. The bulges may help with the stability much better than a flat sided hull which is what I had. I would expect the hull to turn better though than the scratchbuilt one I had. The Takao is very similar to the Aoba and that model though gorgeous did not perform to expectations. However I learned a lot from watching and battling with it and aganist it so those points I am going to put to use on this one. This one I am definitly going to enjoy building.  | | | |
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crzyhawk
 Rear Admiral (RADM)
 Posts:2130

 | | 22 Dec 2009 09:15 AM | | It will definitely be an engineering challenge trying to find the right balance of characteristics. That undulating down sloping stern though ought to make for some sweet stern gun action as you can keep them low to the water and still hit close to your own stern. Didn't Bob P develop a lightweight cannon for his I-400? It might be worth looking at using the same kind of gun to keep the Aoba's top weight down. EDIT: Since I have a soft spot in my heart for IJN cruisers (except the Takao class) the Aoba hull brings us pretty darned close to having all the IJN cruisers available. All we need is a Takao/Myoko in fiberglass. BC has the Aoba/Furutaka covered, Mogami is produced up in the OAF, and pamnjay is working on the Tone plug. It's time to start a Myoko campaign! | | | HMS Invincible
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 22 Dec 2009 10:37 AM | | That's a great idea!! | | | |
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slow_and_ugly Veteran
 Ensign
 Posts:231

 | | 08 Mar 2010 05:49 PM | | FYI.....My MYCO plan for the Furataka (1941) shows twin rudder. | | | |
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 09 Mar 2010 10:53 AM | | Excellent. | | | |
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warspiteIRC Veteran
 Lieutenant
 Posts:451

 | | 11 Mar 2010 01:57 PM | | I thought I fought with a Takao at CAN-NATs 6. I don't know if it was fiberglass but the Canadians may have a mold. | | | |
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Stokamoto Stokomoto
 Vice Admiral
 Posts:3728

 | | 12 Mar 2010 09:14 AM | | You did fight a Takao. I don't know what happened to the mold though. | | | |
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