R/C Naval Combat

I've heard the treaty guys discussing if drag disks should be allowed. I personally don't want to use them for my new MWC boat... but no one can deny the advantages they provide.

What do you think?

What makes it interesting is some groups allow drag disks, but do not allow screws to be controlled at different rates for better turning, electronically. (I actually think it had something to do with someone using that as an excuse to increase speed in turns)

Personally, I'd like to be able to control engine throttles independently and sh**can the drag disks. After all, it's way more realistic. I don't see the argument (except from a financial one) against differential throttles. A lot of people in MWCI disagree with me, so I don't think I'll submit a rule change proposal on it this year ;)

I have no problem with drag discs and really I don't have an issue with people using engine control to get better turning but I do see where it could present unwanted arguments. It's better to level the playing field as much as possible. Drag discs are no problem as long as they are not so large that they are touching another ship or can actually snag another ship's bilge keel and tear it off. We had some ships damaged by oversized drag discs.

MWCI rules limit the drag discs to no larger than the prop they are mounted to, which limits the amount of stick-outie-ness that you get :) Do they allow bigger in your club, Curt?

The only objection I have to drag disks is that if a real ship were to stop its outside props from spinning and just let them drag in the water, it would slow down, not keep the same speed and boost turning. Engine control steering is fine, but is not very useful in 1/144 scale models unless you build the Admiral Popov. Then again, my club currently has NO restrictions on drag disks. For all they care, I could make the outside props turn in REVERSE to improve steering, and there's nothing they could do to stop me.

In a word, yes. They should as it is just another tool to help with correcting speed for your model. Whatever can be done to make things proper. If I gotta put an old fashioned sail on my ship cause I can't get her up to speed I would. (joking, woudl be funny though) I do agree with Curt though that the playing field should be level.

Carl,
I think that engine steering assist would be useful, especially if you drove all 4 props on a big ship. Most people don't, because 1)complexity, and 2)Driving all 4 is supposed to hurt turning. I submit that if you were allowed to do differential shaft speeds port/stbd, that would change.

Reading my original post, I didn't mean to imply that I thought drag discs should be banned; rather that if I could have only one, it'd be shaft speed variation. I view drag discs as a last resort for getting my ships down to speed. I try to get there without them, but if I'm still too fast, then some small drag discs can go on. I'd rather use a drag disc than use the ESC to run at 30% of rated RPM, since electric motors tend to develop more torque at high RPM. I'd say my comfort range for ESC adjustment is around 70-100% of full throw on the stick.

Just for Craig, at Nats last year, it was so windy for one convoy battle that the big huge Convoy ships (limited to 34sec) were getting noticeable improvement from the wind for one leg of their journey, and had to be pushed by friendly warships on the other leg. So all that passenger liner superstructure serves a purpose after all...

I don't think reversing the inboard engines will help in turning on Big Gun ships. Its perfectly legal in our rules to do so, yet no one does. Most of our turning force comes from prop wash over the rudder(s) and by reversing the inboard props, you reduce that force.

The exception to the rule was the Admiral Popov, which had no rudder. But when the hull is a circle, different rules apply :-)

Andy

Legal in Big Gun rules? Hmmm... maybe I need to build a big gun ship to test my theories...

How about if you drove the center two props full time together, since they provide wash over the rudder, and then turned ON the screw on the outside in a turn, whichever side that might be? Still illegal under MWCI rules, but interesting thought.

It'd make a difference if you were backing up, I would think, where the rudder is useless for turning...

Tuggy, No need for you...

My Iowa already has this system, although its too cold to test & I'm still waiting on my ruddy rudders to be shipped from England. But either way, I'll tell you when I know more.

The rule is you can't increase the speed of the props to maintain speed through a turn or to assist in acceleration or deceleration. Slowing down or reversing is fine though.

The rule states:

quote:

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3.2.11.3

Motors or throttles may not be set to increase power in a turn to improve the maneuverability of a ship, or to increase the power during acceleration or deceleration to improve the starting and stopping characteristics of a ship.

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Andy

Yup, that's what it does! :) No increasing past what has been commanded from radio. Unfortunately, its not legal for mwc... but I am curious if it will be helpful for big gun. Either way, a good experiment.

Our drag props can be fairly large such as on a Veneto we have and on one of our Yamatos a necessity here. Guys here are using them as a last resort. Now they do angle the drag disc inward to funnel the flow of water towards the main rudder. This does help apparently. I don't use drag discs now as I have my original props now and this has slowed me back down to 24 sec per 100 ft.

Curt, while Yammie had the props she had one amazing drawback... the freakin' noise man! Sounded like you had a vacuum attached to the back of the Yammie and she was suckin up the pond.

Yeah it was amazing how little ships got sucked into the props! lol.

I do miss the South Carolina... it was a good ship man.

Dito was is and will be even better. A great little ship.

*Air Nova* That went over your head Curt. I was suggesting it got sucked into the props... LOL

Hey I am only 5.5 doesn't take much for things to go over my head.

I thought you were five foot two inches tall, guess I was wrong!