R/C Naval Combat

I'm just getting involved with the hobby and I noticed some of you talking about KIP solenoids for firing your cannons. A buddy of mine has a few of these kicking around however I was wondering what is the part number of the solenoids that you guys are using. Thanks for the help.

Jeremy

As far as I know we are useing a special ordered KIP due to the voltage.

Im pretty sure it is 271114-06-6vdc. If all goes well after this weekend we should know how the clippard ones do in battle.

Mike (SC) tried the clippards this last weekend in Savannah, and if I remember right, he was not too happy with them.

Mike give us all a report on those Clippards, we talked a minute or so about them, but what's the pro and cons on them?

Actually, I liked the Clippard valves. The problem with the Richy wasn't the valves themselves, but other self inflicted problems with accumulators and cannons.

As a test, I ran 4 valves at 12v and 1 valve at 6v. From the beginning, it was obvious that the 12v powered valves seemed to shoot harder than the 6v powered one. The 6v powered valve seemed to shoot softer. The valves will work on 6v, but I suspect that the voltage is not enough to open the valve all the way when pressurized.

Rate of fire looked good. I didn't get a chance to really see how fast they would fire, though they did 3 - 4 rounds per second without any problems.

I think the Clippard valve is a viable substitute for the KIP. I do want to do more tests after ironing out my other problems, including a blue foam penetration test.

Dave, I would love to see what your shot tester says sometime. :)

Was there any more testing done with the clippards?? I was just wondering if there were any updates.

I bench tested them a while back, they seemed great. Someone else (sorry forgot) is also testing them. Don't think they are water proof. I'm going to use them in the Tirpitz, and whoever the other guy is he is going to run them this season too. The nest last step is to wait until the end of the season to see how they hold up. Otherwise, they are good to go.

Thanks Justin.

You do battle big gun, correct? That was another question I had as to if these flow enough for big gun use (Iowa class, so triple 1/4 inchers)

Also, if two were energized at once, say to fire both forward turrents, would they tend to cause a momentary voltage drop that might slow the opening rate, therefore reduce firing power?

Mike which clippards are you using? (part number). I have Rob's tirpitz that has a total clippard solenoid setup that he has been running for a while. I heard it was very good from others whom he helped with it.

I have the ETO-3-6 and I saw him shooting them on a video he made for me. They fired just as fast as anything else I have seen. I have no idea if they are shooting soft or hard so I will have to get it re-done and test it.

They do not appear to be waterproofed as far as I can tell, so I would say they are like the Kips as far as that goes and can be under water without serious problems. Once again I dont know for sure.

Justin:
Which solenoids did you test?

I'm using the Clippard MME-2PDS-W012. I did a review of the solenoids at this link:

Visit this site

The ETO-3-6 is not a good valve for direct control of the cannons. They are only rated up to 100 psi. You may find some that will handle upto 150 psi, but the internal poppet is small and the air flow is pretty low. The ETO series is good for operating air piloted valves such as Clippard's PAV series.

Yes Mike, that is how they are being used, with the PAV valve.

Sorry guys, I've been building & haven't checked this thread in a while. I, now, as of this upcoming season, fight fast gun as part of IRCWCC's Washington Cascade Column.

I just checked your 2PDS specs; they are NOT what I used & are NOT going to be sufficient for big OR fast gun without a booster. (pneumatically actuated high flow valve)


What I tested, and what I believe are a great replacement for the KIPS... (Although, I won't be able to tell you for sure until after the seasons over)


Clippard MME-31PES-W012

Visit this site

* 3 Way

* 180 PSI

* 1/8” NPT connections

--> * 31 SCFM @ 100 PSIG

* ~$25/ea



Putting things in perspective,

The MME-2PDS-W012 is 6.7 SCFM

MAV-3 6.8 SCFM

Mouse valves 0.6 SCFM w/ booster 6.7 SCFM w/ High flow (2013) booster, 22 SCFM

The Kips are somewhere around 28-30 (I've lost my actual calcs, they were very comparable.. but slightly less)

Big gun cannon "ball valves" are 60~100+ scfm


Am I missing one? Seems like it...



Now, the three way valve might be an issue for some... But I think they will work just fine for me. What will happen is the valve will vent the cannon to atmosphere after it is finished firing. Which if the BB is still inside, MIGHT cause it not to fire.

My thought is, we are talking about a fraction of a second. If I'm ever able to fire the cannon that quickly, I will worry about it then.

I know 6.7 scfm doesn't sound like a lot, but it worked very well in my cruiser and battleship. :)

I looked at the 31PES. It has huge flow rate! They are a spool valve type which can handle lots of flow. It was one of the valves I was looking at trying someday. Please let us know how they work out!

Hmm... well, if they work, then they work. :) When I found these Clips, I think I was searching for a replacement for the Kips. So it wasn't so much a matter of "must be this flow rate to work", but "must be this flow rate to replace the expensive behemoths".

If 6.7 works, that's awesome. It just means we will both be on the water this year. :)

I wonder if the higher flow rate will hit harder? Probably, more gas trying to move that little BB.

I've used plenty of Clippard EV-3-6-H valves for many years in Big Gun. I've never had any problem with them, including having them sunk many times. I think I may have had to take one apart & clean it once, but I could be wrong about that.

JM

Clippard EV-3-6-H
0.45 scfm @ 25 PSI

This would be used to trigger the larger ball valve sitting at the bottom of your indiana-style (or equivalent) cannons.

Fast guns aren't necessarily built like that. Kips & the 31PES can be used to fire the cannons directly. Meaning 1 valve per barrel total.

quote:

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Originally posted by JustinScott

Clippard EV-3-6-H
0.45 scfm @ 25 PSI

This would be used to trigger the larger ball valve sitting at the bottom of your indiana-style (or equivalent) cannons.

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So my guess is that this unit would be used in conjunction with the traditional MPA-7?? As in (for big gun) a guy might use an RCE200 to trigger an EV-3-6-H valve to supply air to a MPA-7 to push open the buna ball valve???

If so, that is along the lines of what I want to do.. but...

Is there a more direct way to deal with this... such as an electric actuator that could be tripped by an RCE200 to directy open the buna valve instead of the MPA-7 on a traditonal Indiana syle cannon??

If so does anyone know who makes/ where to get an applicable actuator?

I'd look at electronics places for a 6V-rated soldenoid that pushes far enough to open the Buna...

quote:

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Originally posted by Tugboat

I'd look at electronics places for a 6V-rated soldenoid that pushes far enough to open the Buna...

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Any suggestions on where to start?/ I've poked around a bit, but I really don't know what I'm looking for[V]

how much of a push do you need to open the Buna valve? (How much torque is required, and how much movement (1/2"?))